File:Island-Crime-s1e07-A-Witness-One-that-got-away.mp3

Summary

Island Crime s1e07:A Witness & One that got away (46m) Fri June 26, 2020 (Laura Palmer)

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source: https://island-crime.simplecast.com/episodes/s1e7-a-witness-one-that-got-away
spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/1KdO6FbIATMviUqNWhooL2
apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/s1e7-a-witness-one-that-got-away/id1513479877?i=1000501366636
youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-q6hmLSR3g (Posted July 8, 2020)
archive: https://archive.org/download/island-crime-lisa-marie-young/island%20crime%20s1e07%20a%20witness%20one%20that%20got%20away.mp3

[Reproduced under Copyright Act (Canada) s.29.2 - Fair Dealing for the purpose of news reporting]

Transcript

Island Crime: Season 1, Episode 7 A Witness & One that got away - June 26, 2020

Season one of Island Crime debuted recently with the story of Lisa Marie Young a Nanaimo cold case the podcast entitled where is Lisa is now one of the top two crime podcasts in the country in the short period of time since I released the first episodes of season one there has been a deluge of interest in Lisa Marie Young's case the city of Nanaimo is still haunted by the disappearance of 21 year old Lisa Marie Young who went missing over the Canada day weekend in 2002. the case remains unsolved but her story is gaining attention again thanks to a new true crime podcast

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those responsible for her death are sleeping a little less easily I suspect and that is a very good thing

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it's the start of the summer 2020. the anniversary of Lisa Marie Young's disappearance is near she is in my mind often as is her mom Joanne the annual march for justice for Lisa which Joanne championed year after year is just around the corner this year's march will take place amidst growing outrage over a number of violent incidents involving police and indigenous people there are increasing demands to address the kind of systemic racism which I believe was present in the investigation into Lisa Marie Young's case and there is also a new campaign for Lisa people are being asked to leave their porch lights on for Lisa on the anniversary of the night she didn't come home the lights are a sign of hope I think of all those little lights flickering in the darkness I think of Don and Joanne Young on that evening all those years ago waiting for their daughter to come home and I think of how their hope faded over the years but now finally there are flickers of light I'm Laura Palmer you're listening to Island Crime season one where is Lisa this is episode seven ahead a witness and one that got away

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I've been frankly blown away by the response to this podcast so far I've been overwhelmed with people who are coming forward with support and information about Lisa Marie's disappearance the Facebook advocacy group for Lisa has almost doubled in size swelling to nearly a thousand people many of those who live in Lisa Marie's hometown are speaking out they're calling for justice and they're sharing their memories of Lisa a local detective tells me she has shared the podcast with an association of private investigators I hear from someone who knew a police officer involved in the investigation he tells me the police know who did it they just never had the evidence to make the case a man who heard the information from Dave in episode 5 about how Lisa's body was first disposed of in a well shares his expertise he has knowledge of wells and he points to a map of all wells in the area new and old and there are questions in episode 4 psychic Norm Pratt said a bag of identification was found while they were in the woods looking for Lisa a listener asks what became of that bag the answer norm tells me it was handed over to the police but that nothing came of it Lisa's story is reaching people sparking memories and introspection here's listener and broadcaster cam moon great work on the first season of your podcast you did an incredible job of telling this story plenty of interviews really helped shape the picture I was drawn to it because I used to live in Nanaimo I was there from 1995 to 98. you had said in the podcast that Lisa Marie wanted to be a sports broadcaster well that's what my job was when I lived there I did the sports and the play-by-play for the Nanaimo clippers at the BC hockey league on what was then CKEG 1570 which is now 106.9 The Wolf and 102.3 The Wave Lisa Marie would have been 14 to 16 while I was there did she listen to clipper games did she come to some of the games did I see her at the rink I couldn't help but think of those questions while I listened it's an incredibly sad story I really feel for the family I hope something comes from this podcast and someone is brought to justice I'm determined to follow up on as much as I can in this episode you'll hear from two of the people who have stepped forward into the light with relevant and important information

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when I began researching Lisa's case I wanted to hear from those who were out at The Jungle that night and I was also keen to learn more about what Dallas holly knew Dallas you will recall is the friend Lisa called for help while she was stuck in the car unable to leave just after I begin publishing episodes a woman steps up she was working at The Jungle that night she knew Dallas he shared his story with her I know who she is and I'm confident in the legitimacy of her perspective but she has asked that I not identify her and I'm respecting that request

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well I am um 42 um a little bit older than Lisa would be and I've pretty much grown up in an animal my whole life my husband and I both went to school here and I'm a teacher and a martial artist and um I used to work I've worked many uh waitressing jobs throughout my university time near Nanaimo and so I was at The Jungle working the night that Lisa disappeared I I've never been inside The Jungle can you tell me what it was like what was it like to be working there back then it was a crazy time it was a kind of in the heyday of that place I kind of think that night life at that time was was action-packed and crazy at times there were you know wet t-shirt contests there were nights where there were dollar high balls and just you know tables full of drinks and it was just it was madness but um you know a lot of people knew each other again as slowly and in as much detail as you can recall talk to me about specifically what you saw that night as it relates to Lisa's case sure I'll do my best so this was so long ago that my memory is patchy I do think I have a pretty good memory for certain things and um particularly for conversations about that and that night because it's of course what happened quite vivid in my mind but you know I realized that some parts of what I remember are perhaps things that I've read and so um I'll do my best to kind of delineate between what I remember very clearly and what I'm not so clear on um so what I do remember very clearly was that at closing time um I was chatting with Dallas before he left because he was feeling pretty good he I remember him being a little bit intoxicated and uh he was outside and he had one male friend with him and he was it was his birthday and he mentioned that and so I don't know why but that stuck in my mind I just remembered him at closing time outside and he was leaving and um I did not see Lisa with him I don't remember seeing her in the club that night but I do remember him leaving I do remember the jaguar uh the guy in the jag was um kind of cruising by and I'm not sure if he and Dallas had at that point like if he had already talked to him or what happened I didn't really make any connection with that until later when Dallas told me more about that evening and what happened after the club so you mentioned earlier that as someone who worked at the club you know you obviously knew some of the people who came and went there is that is that how you knew Dallas no actually so I knew Dallas a few different ways um so my boyfriend at the time was also a prize fighter and so the so you think you're tough so you want to fight I think is what they were called those fights were huge events at that time and it was a bit of a social scene in and of itself to go to those fights and see people there and so I had a little bit of insight into that community having you know my boyfriend so that is interesting that whole um world of prize fighting and yeah you know just seems to be a bit of a backdrop for this whole story so that's what that's how you came to know Dallas yeah that's how I knew Dallas um and also my good friend that I was living with um at that time she worked with him at Thrifty's I think as well and um pretty charismatic so yeah you're yeah I remembered him very well so he's you know he's a character in this story although of course he is deceased as well so we you know I I can't talk to him can you tell me yeah can I do want to ask you obviously about that conversation you had with him um yeah but before that can you just tell me a little bit more about him what was he like what kind of a guy was he so I didn't know him well but I you know I would say he was an acquaintance and so um and I saw him you know quite a bit in the night club and that sort of thing but um he was a very um from what in my experience he was a really happy guy he was very friendly um high energy um street smart you know good looking um charismatic guy and he was pretty flirty sometime but he was always super kind and I always remember that about him he was always a gentleman you know I never had any bad experiences with Dallas he was a super nice guy as far as anyone could tell so how is it you came to have a conversation with Dallas about what happened that night it was either a few days up to maybe a week after Lisa's disappearance um we knew about it there was in fact a poster on the telephone pole right outside my house within a couple days and there was mention of this jaguar and this pillow that had been driving it in the poster so we knew she was missing and it was something that we all knew about and it was on everybody's mind um so we ran into bells we were at the river the Nanaimo river and at the time again that was a bit of a social scene as well everyone would go down to the river there's certain hot spots beautiful natural setting but lots of people you know sun bathing hanging out some people drinking and so on and just enjoying the place and cooling off in the summer so my friends and I were there for a swim in the daytime and there Dallas was there too and we ran into him and he you know climbed up on the rocks to kind of chat with us and say hi and then he's you know somehow this conversation came up about Lisa and then told us that he had been hanging out with her that night and this was the first time I had seen him since you know saying goodbye at the end of the night on his birthday so I had no idea and so he proceeded to tell us everything that he knew of from that night and um he seemed uh in good spirits uh but you know he also seemed like he might maybe have been partying I don't really know um you know for a few days perhaps hard to say but um he seemed a little bit exhausted he did mention that was in question for I can't remember like nine hours or something like that um and that was within days of us kind of running into him and he did mention um yeah so I was the last person to talk to her and so he I'll do my best yeah some of it is patchy um so he said that um at some point in the night and I'm not sure if it was right after The Jungle or not that he was out partying it was his birthday and he had gone to a couple house parties and that Lisa was with them um at least at the first party so they went from The Jungle my understanding of what he said was they went from the juggle to a party out in somewhere like cedar the south end of Nanaimo somewhere is what I thought he said um and then they went to a second party somewhere in the Quarterway Pub area which is um kind of close proximity to Bowen Road um that's my recollection of what you said and he said that Lisa was with them um at some point in the night at this first party now I'm not sure if they got together before that and the guy in the said drove them there or if they met up at that party that part I'm not so sure of but he did mention that this guy in the greg when it was a burgundy drag um offered to drive them around like from party to parties type thing and he said of course you know he said yeah this guy seems like he was somewhat sober and he offered to drive them so they agreed and that was okay and but I did not get an impression that Dallas moved a guy so he never used his name or anything like that um and I read later that there was some question of that but that was not my impression at all and then he mentioned that so they went to this first party and he said that yes you know he said well if I was hitting on Lisa but you know of course so was I kind of saying um and uh just innocent flirting or whatever is kind of the impression I got and then he said they went from that party out in the south end to a second party and he mentioned that the second party um there was a barbecue and that Lisa was a vegetarian and that this guy in the dead had offered to drive her to subway specifically um to get something because she obviously wasn't going to eat any of the meat because she was a vegetarian and so that I think he said that was around I don't know three in the morning or something like that and then after that the guy took her in the jag and to go to the subway but then she ended up crawling in Dallas and saying uh the guy won't let me leave he's creeping me out and he Dallas said and she mentioned that they were in a driveway somewhere on going abroad but she didn't really know exactly where and that's all I really know and then and then Dallas mentioned that she after that texted him as well and in that text she said they won't let me leave and that's all I really know and he said that he was too wasted and he was with other people I don't know who but he said yeah we were too wasted to really do anything about it to go anywhere and that he told her to just get out of the car and just call a cab and that was the last that he heard from her yeah wow so here here you are talking to him and this is just you know a week or days after the fact did you get any sense uh at all that there was there were things he wasn't saying or that he was you know that's completely my gut just feeling it nothing factual at all my instinct told me that yes there was something he wasn't saying and I don't know what um you know my guess was perhaps there was some drug use going on I just felt like there was something something that didn't make sense I don't know it was just very strange very strange to me you said he he seemed uh at that point as if he'd been maybe not getting much sleep or um partying or whatever but he did tell you that he had been questioned at length by the police is that right he did he did yeah he said he was they had questioned him and he had been in the station or wherever the questioning happened they took him in there and they didn't let him leave for a long time and he said they asked them the same things over and over and over one of the things that I just was never clear on was um to what extent people at The Jungle were um talked to after uh this all happened and also what was being said you know amongst staff so can you shed any light on those things I have questioned and no one ever mentioned that they were questioned but I can't say that they weren't but you know there was definitely not a police presence that I know of at The Jungle for you know talking to anybody although maybe that happened to other people and not to myself I don't really know this all happened a very long time ago but as someone who you know is part of this community can you reflect at all on what uh what it means for you and for the community that there has been no resolution to this case um I sometimes think about it and start reading things and I can't sleep at night I feel it's terrible it's justice just doesn't happen and it's not right you know when you think back on that conversation with Dallas by the river you know uh because I can't talk to him um I'm so grateful that you're relaying this information is there anything any impression anything that just when you think back on that memory anything that stands out to you about that conversation now at the time I was surprised at how

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maybe I don't know what the word is I don't want to say nonchalant but I was kind of surprised at how lighthearted Dallas seem to be about the whole thing um but at the same time I know that people react to trauma in very different ways and that could be normal for some people and a coping mechanism you know um I can't help but think that Dallas probably felt some deep sense of guilt you know no matter what happened I always thought about Dallas and I always thought that he was a kind guy and I felt like he was being genuine about what he said but then I felt that there was maybe things that he wasn't saying but that's all I could really you know that's all that I can really say because I didn't really know anything except for what he said so that interview answered a few questions and it raised a few for me as well I get a better sense of the club scene the cheap drinks the wet t-shirt contest paint a clearer picture in my mind of that period and Dallas too is taking shape as a character for me I can almost picture him on the river's edge that day the fatigue the guilt and then there's that lingering doubt as to whether he was holding back something some piece of information a few days after that interview I get a call there was something she was holding back after we spoke you called me back to say that there was something else Dallas had said that day all those years ago something that you held back what did he say well I have to explain that I was reluctant to say this because um I think that as people you know we we're kind of reluctant to say anything that might reflect negatively on someone that's passed away and so I struggled with it quite a bit even though I think it's very important so that's why I phoned back he said in the context of telling us what happened to Lisa that night or what he knew of what happened he said that jokingly I did it and I buried her under my porch and um I was shocked I didn't really know what to think of that and it just always sat so uneasy with me um I think I rationalized it in terms of you know like I said before people deal with trauma in different ways and for some people maybe that's normal to kind of uh make a joke or seem kind of nonchalant about something that's really serious but yeah it was just so strange previously when you talked about Dallas sort of talked about him being a kind of charismatic energetic fun guy and he is of course deceased can you just you know talk to me about you know why you thought it was important to call me back and describe this moment which frankly doesn't really cast him in a positive light I think any information that can come out could be helpful and uh I just yeah I think that there's power in the truth and part of me was kind of scared part of me was reluctant to talk about that but ultimately I think I struggled with it and realized that I it's Lisa's memory is what needs to be honored and so if I could you know contribute something that will help to bring her home and solve this then I have to do it I wonder why the police didn't interview this woman surely her witnessing two of the last people known to have been with Lisa that night is relevant and finally there's that mention that the is flirting with Lisa that

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night

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the next voice you will hear is that of a young woman who is coming forward with her own experience with I'm also protecting her identity she is fearful of speaking out and yet she may hold a key to unlocking a part of this story

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it's now summer 2020 but January has set in it's cool and raining as I head out onto the highway once again the interview I am about to do will be difficult there is a lot at stake as I drive down an especially steep winding stretch of road rain pelting the windshield I'm aware a dark colored SUV is following too closely behind me I check my rear view mirror still there still too close since the podcast has been published I've had moments where I worry about my own safety and this is one of them there are people who would prefer Lisa's story remain in the darkness so I'm being careful my guard is up still I take comfort in the beauty of the west coast island around me as I approach my destination the rain lightens two giant eagles sore overhead after the first few episodes dropped I began seeing some reaction from women which had a similar theme I could have been Lisa these are mostly from women who think back on their own youth and recall encounters that could easily have gone very badly today I'm driving across the island to meet one of those women a woman whose story could help shed some light on Lisa's case this woman first reached out to me a few weeks after the first podcast aired I reached out to you Laura asking if you were a reporter me I'm the host and producer of where is Lisa season one of violent crime what's up and I responded in confidence knowing it was you I am an island resident that knew and one night I remember ending up alone at his place as he didn't live very far why I went there I don't know but it wasn't long before he had me in his bathroom offering me a clear bottle of GHB and trying to have sex I was super uncomfortable and wanted to leave but he was extremely pushy and kept grabbing me all over telling me it was okay I feel like he lured me there knowing I was out of foster care and had no family here I was so not young and naive and my body shakes when I think of Lisa and write this I believe things could have turned out very different that night I could have been Lisa the day I drive to meet her she's staying with friends she needs to be away from her family to do this interview and she needs the support of those close friends when she steps out of the house to come and meet me I catch my breath she looks like Lisa she's a petite brunette she's dressed like many young women on the island a large comfy plaid shirt over leggings and flats I will not be identifying this woman nor will I be identifying the man in question except to say that he is one of the people whose name has been associated with Lisa Marie Young's disappearance again these are decisions I do not take lightly I prefer my sources not to be anonymous but I'm confident this woman is who she says she is I believe her when she tells me she is fearful I believe her story and I see a public interest in having her story told she gets into the back seat and we're able to maintain a social distance these interviews are now happening in the time of the pandemic so I am an island resident I've lived on Vancouver island almost my entire life I am a mother and um I'm just actually 10 days older than Lisa Marie can you just sort of walk yourself back in time for me and talk to me about your life then what was going on in your life I graduated from school in 99 and about 2000 I ended up renting a uh a house over two of my long-time girlfriends and while we were young we were wild we were having a lot of fun and um when I turned 19 we would frequent you know the Press Room, the Grizzly Bar, The Palace, The Jungle all those bars on the strip and it was very wild times um things were crazy and often we'd bring the party back home and you know we would just live free and and have fun and um you know our house would be filled with people a lot of the time we would be having a lot of ongoing you know parties and stuff and people coming in and out and just being young and free I've heard people describe the kind of club scene party scene social scene as being as being wild and the idea of being young and free I think a lot of us can relate to that yeah despite my graying hair I too had that experience um but can you just like in a little more detail tell me about what you mean when you say kind of wild what are we talking about while we like to go to raves we like to have long weekends of parties and bring it home and you know just go with the flow and I wasn't ready to go off to college yet so you know we were just we were just uh having fun partying and you know meeting and integrating with all these different people the rape scene was pretty unique group of people there was people from all walks of life and you know growing up in district 69 there was a lot of as we say cliques you know so I found it was hard going to both schools in that district but when I entered the rave scene people seemed to be much more accepting and this ended up with quite a group of people let's say the rave scene uh there will be people listening who just don't know what that means when the rave scene is what well in the late 90s it was still very underground but we are definitely introduced to you know ecstasy and stuff like that and not always living with discretion you know taking some risk living a little bit more of a risky lifestyle but still feeling safe in our circle in what we were doing at the time but there's something about that time that you now look back on with some anxiety I don't know exactly how to say it but you uh emailed me after listening to the podcast can you just uh slowly and in as much detail as you're comfortable with talk to me about what it is you experienced and well let's just start with that sure so Friday night I received a phone call from a friend asking me if I had listened to a podcast regarding Lisa Marie we are both very aware of Lisa Marie's story not in full depth but we know this story we see the posters and we've heard the rumors so instantly I related to what she was talking about and I started straight away we kind of go back and forth about different documentaries we're very into crime like shows and stuff like that so um I quickly jumped onto Spotify and started listening to the podcast and the first um the first segment was obviously about Lisa Marie's life and painting a picture of who she was so you know you instantly feel a little more connected to the story and her herself and then when I got a couple more um episodes in they described and that was a trigger definitely um something I didn't I don't think about every day but when this came up and I heard other details about this story it definitely triggered me and hit me hard you mentioned that you are close to Lisa Marie's age and you have been to some of those same places you're listening to the podcast what was it that that triggered you or as you say triggered you uh in a very hard way well because I realized that um I had been with I knew him I knew his family and one night when we were all having a house party just down the road we didn't live far from each other he ended up at the house and I didn't really make anything of it just going about the night and somehow I ended up making my way back to his place alone I don't know why but it wasn't long before he did have me in his bathroom pushing me up against the sink the vanity and he was offering me GHB and at that time I was still only maybe 19. I was pretty street savvy I was pretty street smart I knew about the underground life and I knew what GHB was and I knew what it potentially could have done to me and I refused and he was very persistent and he kept grabbing my body and trying to persuade me to go farther and I don't know what it was I knew I had broken the golden rule not going alone with somebody like that you know but somehow I managed to get out of the house and back to our place and you know I just uh it never sat well with me I knew it could have been a dangerous situation once I got through the doorway and realized what was going on but for some reason I was able to leave and get back I don't know if it was people knew I had gone there with him or you know somebody was reaching out or I had to be back but I ended up leaving the building and going back to our place of residence at that time what do you remember about leaving that place and I guess if you could just paint me a little bit of a picture of you know the neighborhood his place that just kind of take me there as much as you can and again as much as you're comfortable with yeah so um our place of residence was right downtown Parksville and there was a couple um friends that would frequent the house that lived about in a four five block radius I'd say and uh did not live far it was a walking distance and all I remember I can't quite remember I believe it was an apartment building because there's quite a few like condo settings right around that area and all I remember really of his house is going in and then to the left there was the bathroom and almost getting shuffled right in there so really leaving it just all happened really fast and emotions were high my adrenaline was going I felt really cornered and alone in that moment and it just kind of went like it was just self preservation get out of this situation go back to my group of people where I know I'm safe and you mentioned that in in that period when you're in the house alone with him he's being persistent um can you do you have any recollection of what was being said uh what he was doing just groping me trying to pull out my clothes kissing me saying it's all right it's okay like I'll take you back soon kind of thing um I don't know like I say it just happened really fast it seems and it was almost 20 years ago now so you kind of just try to put that stuff out of your mind and honestly I had a boyfriend at the time so you know the the desire to divulge what had happened in a situation that I had put myself in was not at the forefront it was kind of okay we escaped an awkward serious situation let's just uh continue on you were in care at some point in your life yes is there any part of you that wonders if that's why or how you ended up in that situation or that you were targeted because of that it definitely crosses my mind um being awarded the court not having family no brothers or sisters simply you know a group of friends that came and went yeah I believe perhaps he did learn me over there knowing that I didn't have much of a web behind me I have been told by other people that he you know if I met him I would think he was quite charming um absolutely so yeah pretty suave kind of character had that nice haircut was older pretty established as we all kind of you know guest I want to just go back to like the period immediately after you you have a boyfriend this isn't something you want to like really get into obviously but what impact does that have on you as a young person at that point in your life but I think I uh I was quite reserved after that for a while my relationship didn't work out I moved away things were a little bit tough but I just took it as that was just finding myself in the world you made the decision to you know send me that first email and you know we've had a back and forth since then what is it uh that made you think it was time I just think that um with you shedding new light to the story and having a personal experience that there's possibly other people out there that may have some information or a personal experience I personally didn't know Lisa at the time but I have very close friends that knew her personally and I just felt like it was it was something that I needed to do to maybe help bring others forward and realize that this this suave character that painted a picture of himself was nothing of the man that he was if there's somebody listening right now who knows something who maybe has been fearful of coming forward or you know who has compromised themselves in some way what do you want them to know what do you want them to think about now um I mean it's just important think about if that was your daughter your sister your friend if you had information or a situation that could potentially lead to solving this crime this disappearance to give the family and the community closure it's I think it's an important thing to do you feel like you have the support you need now you've talked about this being triggering or are you are you okay I'm okay I am I mean it's a sort of detail of my past but it's just a small situation that I'm glad didn't turn into a fatal situation I've tried throughout to be transparent about my process there is rightly a lot of mistrust about how the media operates I struggle with the decision regarding airing this interview this is just one perspective on an encounter that happened nearly 20 years ago there are no corroborating witnesses but I believe her story I want to hear his side I circle back to my contacts and I do manage to reach one new source close to him but no one knows where he is and I'm told he moves around a lot once again if you want to add your voice to this story please get in touch at laurapalmer.ca ahead in episode 8 an interview I have been trying to get for almost nine months I have just recorded a lengthy interview with the RCMP you will finally get to hear from them I'm Laura Palmer you're listening to where is Lisa season one of Island Crime if you haven't already subscribed you'll want to do so now so you don't miss the revelations ahead from the police and please do rate and review this podcast I'm new to this whole true crime podcast world and those reviews well they really do help.

I'm Laura Palmer and this is Island Crime.

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