File:Island-Crime-s1e12-Hornets-Nest.mp3

Summary

Island Crime podcast s1e12: Hornets' Nest

Laura Palmer (Nov 29, 2022) (Previous) (Next)

source: https://island-crime.simplecast.com/episodes/s1-e12-hornets-nest

youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWQI7VLO9t8

archive: https://archive.org/download/island-crime-lisa-marie-young/island%20crime%20s1e12%20hornets%27%20nest.mp3

[Reproduced under Copyright Act (Canada) s.29.2 — Fair Dealing for the purpose of news reporting]

Transcript

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Please drive to highlighted route. It's a sunny, warm Saturday in September 2022. Summer is stretching into fall. I'm still swimming at the lake. It's early in the morning as I make my way to the lovely seaside community of Qualicum Beach. The windows on my little Honda are down and the music is turned up. If it weren't for the rake and the gloves in the back of my car, I could be destined for the beach. But today I'm joining a small group of Lisa Marie Young's family and friends to search for Lisa. I turn off the highway and take a left onto a quiet residential street.

I pull in beside a trail leading into the forest, just minutes from the heart of town.

Today we're searching the woods behind a property once owned by Gerry Adair. Gerry was Christopher Adair's grandmother. And a reminder Gerry was the owner of the Red Jag, the vehicle driven by Chris, the man who Lisa was last seen with the night she vanished. It's my understanding that Chris stayed with his grandmother from time to time, and that he may have been staying there on that fateful Canada Day weekend, 2002. This property sits far back from the road on a pleasant street with ocean views. Today, Gerry's former home would be listed for over $1 million. It's currently owned by a couple who use it as a vacation property. They don't live on the coast.

The backyard was once searched by police, although I'm told it was something of a cursory search. I've spoken with one of the owners. She tells me she doesn't believe that anything is here. She would have sensed it. The house backs onto a stretch of forest and a trail with railway tracks further back. On this morning. It's busy with dog walkers and retirees out for their morning stroll. As search members begin to gather, I stopped to chat with some neighbors. They're curious about what's going on. One resident comes by with her lovely dog and she tells me her pup was a therapy dog. I'm grateful to stop and pet this gentle friend for a moment. It helps calm my nerves because as much as this day is bright and the group is friendly, our task is grim.

I'm Laura Palmer and this is where as Lisa, an update to Island Crime Season one. This episode is called Hornet's Nest.

Lisa's friends and family have pulled together this small group. There's about a dozen or so of us here, and I'm honored to be part of this circle. I've grown up in Nanaimo, and so I've known about Lisa. When I found out this search was happening, I just thought, it's something I can do to help. I'm having experience in my own family with murdered and missing women, knowing what that could be like for family members to not know. I was a part of a homicide grief group, and in that group we had, of course, people whose cases were solved and they were, you know, on their way to court. And then there were the people who had unsolved murders, and then there were the people whose loved ones were just missing. And I always felt like my husband as well. We felt that the people who didn't know what happened to their loved ones were the most lost. You know, it was really emotional the first, first time that we came out here and saw the property and connected to the fact that, you know, Lisa may have been here and this could have been, you know, the place where she was, um, she was left, um, to bring answers for her family and maybe some justice. She sure has an army behind her. Lisa. It's a beautiful fall morning. You could be doing a thousand different things. Why this? I think that people who are have had loved ones murdered, they kind of need to support each other. I mean, what else would I be doing shopping at the mall or, you know, something like that. And, you know, this thing about murder and whatnot is always on my mind anyways, so I might as well participate in something that I think may end up with an outcome of some kind. You know, because we're we're searching here is pretty viable in my opinion. It's kind of a mixed emotional thing because of course, we're here with hope in our hearts that we'll find something that will help to find justice for Lisa. But then it's also really sad because there's a possibility we might find her remains so. I guess I just want them to know.

Sorry. On this first day, I'm unprepared for how difficult the terrain will be. Yeah. So we we sometimes joke and say that we feel like we're in a mini version of Jurassic Park. We've got ferns and ground cover and big giant trees and climbing ivy and all sorts of different things. So, you know, we're we're searching in a terrain that is not always easy. You don't have good visibility and it's a lot of work. So we're clearing removing material. We're being incredibly thorough and going through what is essentially an untamed forest area.

I'm here to document the process, but I'm also here to dig in and help.

Under the beautiful blue bright sky. Working away in this lovely rainforest, surrounded by nice people, it's easy to forget that our task is serious. And it's heartbreaking for some. Lisa's foster sister Carolyn is here. She is close to tears as she breaks through the dense brush looking for signs of Lisa.

Then suddenly there are shouts. Carolyn has unearthed something, something unexpected, a hornet's nest. She is stung multiple times. Carolyn leaves the search. She's in pain and it's all too much.

I think about that hornet's nest. It's a perfect metaphor for the work we've been doing here. This search, the questions, the digging around. We are stirring up trouble. There are those who would prefer we not be here. That this area, that Lisa's Story be left alone.

This search will anger some. And it's more than that. Memories once forgotten are resurfacing. Old wounds are being reopened. If finding Lisa means making some people uncomfortable or even angry, then so be it.

Gerry has been deceased for over a decade. I talked to a few folks who knew her. Her family describes her as a busy, successful businesswoman. She was a top realtor here. Others use words like pistol. Another says scoundrel. After Lisa vanished, Geri tried to distance her grandson and her family from the investigation into Lisa's disappearance. Lisa's dad, Don young, told me she threatened to sue them when they papered the town with a poster of her red Jag. I believe anyone can help.

We come back to this area more than once. The second time, we're joined by Doctor Christine Barnett. So does that make sense? And that way we can just like you would hold that line. She's an assistant professor at UBC's department of anthropology. Doctor Barnett guides us through a more structured pattern of grid searching. We were clearing the land and just looking for anything. Just trying to find some trace of her.

I'm using metal detectors that I've borrowed from a good friend, and we're metal detecting the ground.

Amanda, do you want a metal detector? I don't know how consistent the metal detectors are. And then also visual scans for looking for anything. Um, that may be of interest. And we have a list of things that we're also looking for that Lisa may have had with her. And then we're flagging those things we find, and she shows us how to flag items and when we find something. Um, so we have found, um, you know, definitely some garbage which shows that there's always a trace of people, even where it looks like there isn't. Um, but we have found some, some items as well. Some personal items, um, jewelry. And I'm not even allowed to say that. Yeah. Okay. I don't know. Um, yeah. Jewelry, some cigarette wrappers and animal bones as well. And what is that like for you or for the people finding these things? What I mean. Finding something is exciting and anxiety inducing at the same time. Um, it really sort of energizes everybody that's here because it, it serves a purpose in showing us that it is possible to find things that have been lost, and it is possible to uncover pieces of trash or coins or jewelry that have been left untouched for 20 years. And that makes us feel like what we're doing is the right thing. And there is hope to find Lisa. Um, but on the flip side of that, it's extremely challenging because when we find evidence that isn't connected, your heart drops and you feel like you're not doing enough and just wishing with everything in you that there would be something that could connect these pieces and bring Lisa home. Anything we find, we document and hand over to police if there's a possibility the items could be linked back to Lisa. Yeah. So as you're walking anybody that has a metal detector, um. If everybody just goes ahead each time, we're better equipped emotionally and with improved gear. Lisa's group asked supporters to assist in buying search items from Amazon. People want so badly to help. There are new ranks. Safety vests, metal detectors, flagging tape, sheers. Our small group is now very well outfitted and we're well cared for to dream doughnuts. A local doughnut maker donates the most beautiful doughnuts I've ever seen. There's coffee, too, from McDonald's where Lisa used to work.

It's an extremely tough area to search. It's thickly forested with rotten down trees and branches, rocks and salad bushes.

Being out here actually looking for Lisa. Watching her sister break down in tears reminds me how much is on the line. As I drive home, I decide to make a call I should have made much earlier in my research. The name Willie Currie is well known in Lisa's hometown of Nanaimo. He has a lengthy criminal record for crimes including possession for the purpose of trafficking, criminal harassment, attempt to obstruct justice, unlawful confinement, and assault. Willie Currie has been described to me as well feared. His is one of a handful of names that consistently get raised as allegedly being involved in some way in Lisa's disappearance. In earlier episodes, I made a decision not to name Willie Curry, and I decided not to call him. Because outside of persistent rumor, I was never able to find a single person who could actually confirm. Curry knew Lisa and no one who was able to place him out that night with Lisa the night she disappeared.

Curry was a champion boxer. His alias is Killer Curry. This is not someone I approached lightly. But it turns out William Curry is open to talking about Lisa's case.

Here's my surprising conversation with William Curry.

This is where we are.

Uh, my name is Laura Palmer and a journalist here on the island.

Okay. Yeah. That's fine. What's. What's up? Do you have a minute to talk? Yeah.

So it's an okay time.

No. Let's find out. Okay.

I've been working on, um, a series of stories over the past little while about the disappearance of a girl named Lisa Marie Young.

Okay.

And you. You may or may not know, but sometimes your name comes up as someone who was around that night.

Well, I wouldn't. I was. I was around, but I didn't. I've never met Lisa in my life. And the police all told me they were, like, notified that, like, I was maybe a suspect or something. But I did do a polygraph. And I said to them, like, I wasn't going to do the polygraph. And then I said, okay, I'll do it. As long as the family gets a phone call right away with the results. And they said that they would do that. So they got the results and it was negative. And, uh, it's hard on the family because it's been 20 years now and there's so many rumors around what happened that night that your name continues to get well. Well, there there is somebody that put in there on the website that she was last seen at my house. That's a crock of shit that I've never met Lisa Marie Young in my life like I have. I have never met her. I don't even like. I was running an after hours club at that time downtown, and I believe I was, I think I was this was in 2002.

Yeah, I believe I was running an after hours club downtown, and I'm old and I didn't drive a red Jag, but Gerry, Gerry's grandson, did. He's the one with the red Jag. That's who you should be phoning.

I have been trying to talk to him, and I do believe. That's where I'm going to find answers. Well, what happened was I what I did was I went up to, um, what do you call that place where his grandmother. Whether she's a real estate agent. And I got her. I was going to get her to show me a house and, like, take like I was going to act like I was buying a house. And what I want to do is just get close to her and to see, uh, how she was. I drew her reaction as I was, and she was like, when I got to the office, she was a nervous wreck. She wasn't even able to come out and show me a place, but that's as far as I went with that. I didn't go any further with that. Yeah. So I don't know. It seems like she was kind of losing it a bit. I don't know how old she is now, but she was pretty old then or getting up there in the car.

Pardon me. She's deceased.

Oh, okay. See, this is what I was going to mention that. That after Gerry Jarrett passed away, I believe that the police were going to open the investigation up and then go after that. Priscilla, a clarification, William Curry here is simply stating his own opinion on the police have told me that Lisa's case has always remained open, although, of course, I think it's fair to say over the past two decades, there are certainly periods where it's been more active than others. Curry tells me he didn't know Chris back then, but he becomes aware of his reputation through what he describes as a reliable source.

He was a bit of, um, from what I understand, he was a bit of a, uh, creep. Even when there used to be a dance club in town, a strip club there down on, uh, Halliburton Street. And, uh, the dancers used to have their. There was a door where their rooms were, and there was always open. Right. But whenever this guy showed up there, the door was shut, but they wouldn't have the door open because he was such a freak. And we came from a really reliable source. That information there, what I did was I went with my friend, um, uh, Jimmy Wu, who is a meat guy in town. And, uh, what we said I felt really bad for the family. So what I would do, I would, I would go out and I would drive to the gravel roads and stuff like this. And whenever I found any pieces of clothing or whatever else, I would mark it on a map and I would put it in a bag and I would drop it off at the police station because I thought nobody gave a damn. And I really bothered me that nobody seemed to care because there was no searches for her or anything like that. And. So I thought I'd just do it on my own time. And then what happened was, I believe that, uh, some of my so-called good friends got wind of that and said, oh, yeah, that I was just trying to cover it up because I was guilty of that, of guilty of of hurting that lady. And which was not true at all. There's there's no end of rumors connected with Lisa's disappearance, that's for sure.

Unfortunately. Yeah. No. Yeah. Unfortunately, yeah. And that must be so difficult on the family listening to all that stuff, like, just crazy.

Did you ever hear the discussion about possibly some kind of film being made that night? Did that ever. Did you ever hear about that?

Something about a snuff movie? Yeah. Yeah I've heard, yeah, I heard it all. Yeah. Well, what do you what do you make of that?

Oh, no, I think that's his talk. Yeah. No, no, I don't think that's true at all. If anybody's ever and ever said they seen it, and, uh, I wouldn't believe them put it that way. Right? Yeah. I wouldn't believe him.

Throughout our conversation, he repeatedly raises his concern for Lisa's family. Earlier in this series, Lisa's father, Dawn, talked about being approached by someone with an offer of help. Here's what that meeting looked like from Curry's perspective. I met her dad. But what happened was I met her dad, right? First I phoned him up and I said, hi, my name is Willie. I want to let you know that I care about your daughter being gone or missing. Right? And that I go. I'll do anything you want me to do. I told them, like I phoned them up and they said that. Then a week went by and I was still feeling helpless. Right. So I phoned him up and I met him at Tim Hortons. And I said to him, listen, I'm I'm your soldier, I'm your guy. And whatever you need done, just you can ask me right now. I'm going over to the mainland. I was asking permission from him if I could hang up some posters of his daughter, and he broke down and started crying and stuff, and I helped him up. And, you know, he told me the whole story about Chris and stuff like that. He didn't use Chris's name, but he was just used the name Oda. And um, uh, yeah. So I've met him before. I don't know if he has told you that or not. He he did. Yes.

Yeah. Yeah, I met him. Yeah. And that's why I felt really bad, like, um, the fact that, um, I went and met him, and then all of a sudden my name gets thrown in there, right? Because here's what I got. When I was, I would drive around Nanaimo and I had a picture of her in my, um, both sides of my van on the windows. Right. And one of my friends, he says to me, oh, well, what are you doing driving around with that? You know, they're going to blame me for that. I'll go. Blame me for what? Because she's only missing at the time I go, blame me for what? And he goes, oh, blame me for knocking her off. I said, Holy shit, dude, what are you talking about? Right. So that's where the I know that for a fact. That's where the rumor started about me having anything to do with Lisa's disappearance. I was going out, I felt horrible, I couldn't some nights I couldn't even, like, go. I don't know, I just felt I went through a change in life. I went through a change where, um. Um, God came into my life and Jesus and stuff and and stuff. And that was, I believe, before that happened to Lisa. And so when that happened, and I was reading about the paper, how they, um, uh, had a search for her and then they cancelled the search, and I was like, oh, that family just must be going through this turmoil, right? So I thought, what could I do to help? Y'know, I'll phone them up and offer myself to them as a, as a soldier. Right. And, uh, like I said, a week went by after that and, um, I, um, I met him and I went over hung, um, some posters up in Surrey of his daughter and, um, uh, when I got back, I would go driving down, like I say, dirt roads and stuff like this, and I would. And Martha were like, you know, sometimes you see clothes at the side of the road or whatever else down these dirt roads, whatever else. Right. So and I would go down really. Really rough road, you know what I mean? Like, uh, we're more vehicles. Couldn't go, right? Yeah. And when I would find clothes, whatever else, I would pick them up, put them in a bag, and I would draw a map to where they were, exactly how many kilometers, and I would drop it off to the police station. I'll just ring the doorbell and put it down and leave.

Did you ever find anything?

Yeah, we found, uh, separate, like, clothes and stuff like this. Yeah, but.

But anything. Any sign of Lisa? Any?

No. Well, I don't know if the police followed up on that or not. Yeah, like, I don't know, because what I do is I just put it by the door and then basically just ring the buzzer at the front door of their office downtown. Right? Yeah. Because I didn't want to be, like, looked like I was like, uh, some kind of hero or anything like that. I just wanted to put my put, put my time in where I genuinely, genuinely cared.

After Lisa's disappearance, he says he offers to be a soldier for the family. He's searching for Lisa and even attempts to learn what Gerry Adair might know. So I ask Willie Curry what his understanding is of what happens after Lisa gets into Chris's car. That last time

Lisa Marie got in a Jag with that fellow. She was last seen. She was at a house and they had a suite that they went upstairs and the red Jag stopped by there on the way out, and I think she might have went in the house, grabbed something or whatever else and then left. Yeah, but yeah, that's a pretty sure that's a fact. But she never came by my house. Never. I don't even know who this guy is. Never seen him. You never even couldn't even tell you what color his hair is like. I don't know who this guy is. I know all of them. Yeah, well, through the red Jag. Right. And that's another thing. When I talked to the dad. Right. And he was at Tim Horton's with me when I talked to him, he sat there and he said when they went to interview this guy, his wife was there and his wife, like, was listening to what he was saying. I don't know what he said, but listen to what he's saying. And that she had to leave the room because she was going to get sick.

From the way the guy's attitude was, it got so, um, intense that his wife had to, like, leave because she was going to get sick.

It's it's just awful. Willie talks to me about what's going on in his life back then, in the period after Lisa goes missing, he's training a lot. He's having success as an amateur boxer. He fondly recalls his kids coming to see him fight at the Civic Arena. But his marriage is a losing battle. He's going through a divorce. There's a restraining order. He goes to jail for uttering a threat to his wife. William Curry says he wants me to understand he wasn't hiding or running away at the time. Rumors about his involvement in Lisa's disappearance were beginning to take hold. Back then, he says he does what he can to clear his name for himself and for Lisa's family. I tell him I regret not calling him earlier.

I can understand why you wouldn't want to call because, like, you know, it's opening up like a like a can of worms for me a little bit. Because I didn't like I didn't I didn't hang my head at all. I didn't do anything of the sort. Right? Even after I heard that all this shit that was going on. The only thing people. I felt real bad for that I needed to get to let them know that it's not true. Was their parents because we having to meet him and then him hearing this stuff, it must've just drove him crazy, like, like. And I didn't want him to think that I was part of it. I wanted him to think that I was part of the solution. But like I said, I don't know. Did you know that I did a polygraph?

Yes, I had heard that.

Yes, I did do a polygraph. Uh, was that was that Wilkinson Road at the time? Uh, the the correctional place up in, um, Victoria. And there was an East Indian guy and Mike Deegan and a couple other officers there, and I was nervous as hell. Like, I took the stuff off a couple of times, and then. Holy shit, how do I know you guys aren't trying to frame me? How do I know you're not feeling? I'll go, but my heart's beating fast. Will that matter? They said no no no no no no. So I trusted them. See, my lawyer and everybody else said, do not do it, don't do it. And I said, no, but I want to do it. I want but I wanted to clear my name for the family. For the family knows that I had nothing to do with it. And so they said that they were going to phone the family right after, right after they were done the results. And I said, okay, then let's do it. And I did it. And did the East Indian guy who was doing it said, 100%, you're telling the truth that I want to. You asked me if I had anything to do with somebody's disappearance. No. Did I have anything to do with the murder of Lisa Marie? No. And yeah, 100%. Telling the truth.

I think about the hornet's nest. Lisa's sister kicked over in the woods to William Curry. Resurfacing Lisa's case really is a can of worms. So much time has passed. Here's how. Willie Curry, the young tough guy, the man with the killer Curry alias, now describes himself.

I'm 54 years old now, you know, and I've got, uh, you know, grandchildren and stuff like this, and I really don't want it going to the newspaper or anything like that.

But what he says he does want is for Lisa's family, for the public to know. He took a polygraph test and passed it.

Well, they need my consent for them to release the information about the polygraph. Then they can fill me up, and now I can go down there, whatever I have to do to get a release. Yeah, okay. Okay. Thank you very much, Laura.

I asked the lead on Lisa's case, Marcus Munter, to confirm this information. Here's the response I get back. I can't comment on the details of who police may have spoken to, as it can compromise the investigation and telegraph to others that their cooperation with police will simply be released prior to any court proceedings where it would naturally get released. A polygraph is an investigative tool, and it's not admissible in court because it's not infallible. It can be used by police to assist in an investigation. However, it does not clear a person outside of independent evidence.

I've consulted with, you know, members of my family and my wife especially. Um, she's just thinks it's great that I'm sharing this information because I've always wanted to and just been kind of scared to.

That's the voice of a man who briefly dated Lisa the year before she vanished. He sends me this note by way of introduction. I would like to share my story with you about knowing Lisa back in 2001. I just hope my story may provide more info to help find her. I'd like my identity to be kept anonymous, please.

Yeah. Originally born and raised in IMO. I used to work close by to the McDonalds that she worked at and you know, I'd seen her there and she'd even like helped me at the, at the till a couple times I guess. And, and then I actually met her more formally, uh, downtown at a, at a bar, I think it was, I think it was the pressroom, to be honest. It's going back more than 20 years now, but, um, well, her and I actually, I wouldn't call it dating dated, but we hung out and we. She liked me and I liked her.

I agreed to keep his name confidential, but I know who he is. 20 years on, Lisa's memory still haunts him, and I think it's fair to say he has some unresolved guilt.

My friends at the time were quite racist. I don't think they intended on it and were being vicious or anything, but it played a big part in my story with with her. So I think it might just be easier if I just tell you the whole story, like how everything went.

He's sharing his story in the hope that it could help with the investigation. Here's how he describes meeting Lisa.

You know, she's working in McDonald's and she was always bubbly and very friendly and just looked like she loved working there. Like I've heard numerous people on your podcast say about her. And I just, you know, I think that attracted me to her. And when I met her at the press room, it was the end of the night. Everyone was kind of leaving, and there were all kind of hanging out at the entrance or exit or whatever. And I saw her there and I said hi. And back then I was 21. Maybe it's 2001. It was it was about.

Um, March, maybe February of 2001. And I always just ended up driving my friends so I hadn't been drinking. Hence probably why I remember all this. Um, and, um, I just went up there and said hi and said that, uh, she looked nice because she's all dressed up to go out, and I hadn't seen her like that. I thought, you know, she always looked at McDonald's, um, outfit, and we just chatted a little bit, and then I said, okay, well, you know, I gotta go. I gotta get going. My friends are all ready to go, and I'm driving them home. And she gave me a kiss on the cheek and I think she passed me her number. I I'm, I'm not sure on that, but whatever. I was kind of surprised by it. I thought that was really nice of a nice gesture. And, uh, off we went. And, um, I went with my friends, and she stayed, and it wasn't too much longer, um, I remember.

I was going to hang out with some friends and watch this boxing match. I think it was like a retired boxer, possibly Mike Tyson. That's all I really remember about that boxing match. But it was a big event and, um, we nobody had cell phones that seemed like back then. So I was using my friend's phone and she called. I called her, that's what it was. And she didn't answer. But then she called me back and said to come over and watch a movie with her. So I went over and this is the first time we've really, like, hung out. Together and she invited me over to her apartment. It was close to Wellington School and we were watching a movie, and it was just kind of like awkward, like sitting there and, um, but the next thing you know, we were sitting closer and I wasn't really pursuing anything, but it just kind of happened where, um, we started making out and. Right? Like I had to go home because I had to work the next day.

After that, we'd, I'd say to to not make the story go too long. We run into each other downtown on the weekends like she would. It seemed like she knew I'd be there, so she'd end up kind of running into me there. And we talked once. Um, she asked me. If I was going out and I said, yeah, and I was interested in seeing her. So I met her down there and like, the first thing she. Did was just like, talk about. She wanted to get into business with her dad. And she's really excited about it. Like she just had this, like really positive and energetic outlook on life and just was looking forward to do something, do something in business with her dad. And I wish I could remember, but it's been so long and I happen to know who her dad is because he delivered goods to the, you know, business that I worked at. Yeah, it might have just been a new idea that she had, and she just seemed really excited about it. And, um, she was she always wanted to talk about that stuff. Like, it wasn't. It was really mature, um, conversation. And I was interested, like, I was like, oh, that's really cool. Like, I didn't, you know, expect to hear you say stuff like that.

Our conversation begins with a reference to his racist friends. Now listen as he describes how that impacts his relationship with Lisa.

Two things started happening. My friend started noticing that she was. Seemed to always show up when I went out with my friends and again I was driving like I wasn't. I was just the guy that always just drove. And, um, they'd be partying and, you know, revving me, like, bugging me. Oh, there's Lisa again. She's here to see you. And, like, so, like, what's the big deal? I think there was one more time where her and I ended up back at her place and sleeping together. And anyway, shortly after these two episodes and meeting at the bars and stuff downtown, I. I was at work in, a colleague came up to me and he said, hey, you know, my wife works at McDonald's. Um, and she works with Lisa. And I'm like, oh, yeah, right. That's right. I forgot about that. And she's like, yeah, did you know, are you guys like, dating or are you guys together? Because, you know and this guy knew me. He's he's like, I, I had no idea you knew her and she knew you and all that stuff. And I said, oh yeah, I know we're just kind of. Getting to know each other and. I was hung out a few times. I didn't want to get into details, none of his business. And he's like, oh yeah, well, my wife told me that. She said, like, she's super, like, pumped about meeting you and like, she thinks you're the one. And.

So it's such a good guy and stuff. I'm like, okay, oh, like, I don't know if that was a direct quote, but it kind of kind of shocked me a little bit and made me a little anxious. I don't know why, but I guess this next part that I'm going to tell you may have something to do with it. Um, once again, downtown like this would seem like what everybody did back then. I was downtown and she showed up at the I mean, they'll make clubs, change names. I'm trying to remember. I think it was a jungle and we were there, you know, the night went on and it was time to drive my friends home. Yeah, because it was when the bar was closing and we went over across the street, like where the parkade is and. Wheeled out and she appeared with a friend, like coming around the corner walking. And one of my friends took him to himself to roll the window down and yell her name and called her a slut. Like he yelled it as loud as he possibly could. And I turned up my music and I was like, I stupidly honked my horn. I was so mad that he was doing that. And I had, like, never instructed my friends to say anything like that before, um, especially to her. And I just was like, it made me feel like the worst person in the world. I was so mad at my friend for doing that, and I could just see, like the like a deflated because she knew it was my car, right? Like she knew it was my car. And I'm driving away and this dickhead is part of me. But yelling this out at her and I just it just really bothered me. And I could just see it really upset her and I just took off.

I honestly can't remember if I called her to apologize about that. I may have, but that just seemed to be like a repetitive thing with my friends. And they kept like making racist comments and yelling and stuff like that out the window.

And as a young 20 younger 21 year old, I just. And watch what I heard from my colleague. You know, those things combined going on, I just kind of think I. We just lost touch after that.

In my time working on Lisa's story, I often hear people trying to make the case that the fact that Lisa was indigenous didn't play a role in what happened that night, and that it was not a factor in the investigation. I think about that as I listened to the description of the friends attitudes at the time.

They definitely were being jerks like I was. I haven't really been friends with that guy since. Yeah, I think back then, like. Right. I don't know what was wrong with people. Like, I tried to explain that I had a I had respect for her and I liked her, and I wouldn't be talking to her unless that was the case. So, like, what's your guys's problem? But it just couldn't seem to get it through their heads. Like it was almost like, oh, we can't we can't believe that you would hang out with someone like that. I'm like,

I'm almost scared to say that myself just because of how awful it is. You know what I mean? Like, from then till now, things have changed so much. But that's kind of how.

People talked back then it seemed like. Like it's awful.

A few years ago, I spoke with a family member of Christopher Adair. They recalled someone close to Chris blaming Lisa for getting into the car with Chris that night, suggesting that she was drunk and responsible for putting herself in that position.

Well, that's offensive for all kinds of reasons, including an implied racism. So I want to also include this perspective on that point.

You know, I don't think I recall her, but there's really no memory of me seeing her drinking. Um, at the times that I met her, like I said, cool thing is, I have a photographic memory, and I remember certain things, like, very vividly. And it always just seemed like we were standing there talking. Like her agenda. To go out was to come and hang out with me and talk to me and not get bombed like some people do. Uh, nightclubs back then especially, um, but yeah, I know I don't have any recollection of her being excessively drunk or drinking at all. Like, I just know.

As we talk. He also remembers the sad detail of the last time he saw Lisa.

I think that that friend yelling out the window kind of just ended things like she probably really upset her and I didn't man up and go apologize. And she probably just was like, oh yeah, well, there goes dad. I have no idea. Uh, it bothers me to this day, and that's what makes me think I really. I didn't actually call and apologize. Um.

Or I might have tried. I don't know. You know, I met someone else too, right before I left. Like about ten days before I left to go to back to school out east. And I went to the drive thru late at the McDonald's she worked at and, and this new girl was with me and Lisa was at the window to like, deal with us.

That made me feel terrible to like, put your order. You know, there was another opportunity to say sorry, but the girl I was with, we weren't even dating. Like, we were just like, we just met, but we were hanging out, and she had no idea that I knew her. And I just tried to keep it a secret by not saying anything. And Lisa, like I could tell she was mad at me, but she was polite and professional. And thank you. Have a nice day. Took the order and like handed it through the window and just kind of gave me a dirty look and walked away. Um, I mean, I deserved it.

He goes back to school in Ontario. Lisa remains in Nanaimo, and then the following summer he learns that Lisa has vanished.

And make that. Next year went by so fast when I heard that she was missing and obviously couldn't believe it. And I just thought it was terrible and I had. No one knew her, and I had an experience with her. And like, I just felt like I wanted to say something, but I didn't know who to talk to. And I felt like if I went to the police, it was just like, well, what? What is this information going to really do other than maybe put me on the record? And then I'm listening to this guy that I just really didn't know. I was scared to. I was embarrassed, I guess, about what had happened. And so I've been kind of holding on to it since, and I just thought it would be something that I should share.

Then I heard your stories and podcasts and I'm like, okay, I know this is there's a safe way to do this.

His memories of his relationship with Lisa are tinged with his own embarrassment and guilt. But Lisa stands tall in his recollections.

I remember thinking this. This girls seems to have a really good head on her shoulders. And, um, is I disrespect. I had a really a lot of respect for her. Like, I don't know what I was expecting, but just, you know, when I met her, when we talked, I thought, hey, this this person's really cool and has a game plan and such a great person and always talking about the future and what she wanted to do. And I remember that now. Like, I forgot all about that. And that's my favorite team. We talk about the Canucks and I had, you know, lots in common and I think her and I.

But we did like each other and may have ended up having a relationship with each other. But this, these friends of mine, and it was really frustrating and disappointing. Obviously what happened between the two of us, but to hear what happened to her, I did. I've talked to a counselor about this, and I think my counselors concern was that I was blaming myself like this happened to her, because honestly, I did think for a while that what happened with my friend yelling and being racist and.

All the reasons are going from something that looked promising to, like dead in the water, like you're an asshole type of person, you know, may have. Been the last time she trusted another guy or something, but it upset me for years.

Some of the details he tells me are just too personal to make public in a podcast. But with the man's permission, I share what he tells me with the RCMP.

I just got this feeling after I listened to your last podcast that she is going to be found. I just got this good feeling. I call it a good feeling because it's it's what everyone wants. Um, so I think that's coming. Um, and it's and me coming forth and like others that me if you're any of this or be you know, the investigator you know put some pieces together after and you know, I'm hoping that that helps. Um, so yeah, I will talk to them if they want to.

In reporting on Lisa's Story. I hear so many regrets about what people did or didn't do back then. There is a lot of trauma, heartbreak and pain still wrapped up in Lisa's Story. I just think it's so important that Lisa's family and loved ones know that people are still. We still know about Lisa. W won't forget her. Um, we're here to support them and to do whatever we can to to help. Also, I think every time we've been here come out with a lot of hope because we have to keep looking. It just doesn't feel like we can stop until there's an answer. You know, and hearing the stories from Lisa's family and Lisa's friends through the podcast and meeting some of them in person just really makes it so much more real. There's there's a lot of us that are committed, and I think we'll continue to give up our our sunny Saturdays to keep searching. Kicking over the hornet's nest. Even now, 20 years later. Getting everything out in the open could yet bring answers and justice for Lisa Marie Young.