File:Island-Crime-s1e13-Hot-Tub-Time-Machine.mp3

Summary

Island Crime podcast s1e13: Hot Tub Time Machine

Laura Palmer (Feb 5, 2023) (Previous) (Next)

source: https://island-crime.simplecast.com/episodes/s1-e13-hot-tub-time-machine

youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ3_GMglVRU

archive: https://archive.org/download/island-crime-lisa-marie-young/island%20crime%20s1e13%20hot%20tub%20time%20machine.mp3

[Reproduced under Copyright Act (Canada) s.29.2 — Fair Dealing for the purpose of news reporting]

Transcript

[Auto-generated transcript, contains errors]

When I first began researching Lisa's story, years ago, one of the first things I set out to do was to speak with people who were there, with Lisa the night she vanished to find out what was going on that night at The Jungle nightclub and afterwards.

I interview her dad, Don Young, who had a beer with Lisa and watched TV together that evening before she went out.

"Lisa was going out with her friends for somebody's birthday and she came over and I was watching a hockey game or something. Her and I were really close so she hung out for a while and we had a beer and she said okay I'm going out with my friends and that was about it."

I speak to a young woman who worked at The Jungle and was there that night.

"I do remember the Jaguar. The guy in the Jag was kind of cruising by."

I sit down with the reporter, Kendall Hansen.

"So I interviewed Dallas in August of 2002."

"Sure enough it's Lisa on her cellphone. I call her back and she goes 'Dallas uh I don't know what's going on, this guy won't bring me back"

But up until now, my knowledge of what exactly transpired after The Jungle has been thin.

Now finally in this episode you'll hear from one of Lisa's friends who was with Lisa at the after-parties that night.

He spoke to police back then, but he hasn't shared his story publicly til now.

I'm Laura Palmer and this is Where is Lisa: Island Crime Season One. This is Hot Tub Time Machine.

Meet Jason Goodman.

"I'm Jason, I live in Nanaimo, I work in sales."

He believes there is too much secrecy around Lisa's disappearance. More than 20 years on, he wants to talk about what he knows happened that evening.

"100%. 100% open to that."

Like Lisa, Jason is in care for a time. He describes himself as rebellious and he bounces around between family and homes before moving in with Dallas Hulley's family as a teen. Jason and Dallas were close, like brothers.

"We were basically attached at the hip you know, playing video games and you know ,just doing teenager stuff. Just you know going out skateboarding and got our first cars got our you know we worked together, our first jobs, that kind of thing, fighting over the same girlfriends catching the same school bus."

His fondness for Dallas is clear.

"An amazing guy, big heart, always there to help. He went through a rough patch near the end there but uh overall I mean just just loved animals loved the loved life. He's a life lover you know if you get up in the morning he was all smiles where he seldom did you see him on the negative end of the stick with you know not being happy and if it was something he could usually find a way to brush it off relatively quickly you know he'd make he would brighten the room. If you you know you had 10 people sitting in a room and he showed up it was always whoa Dallas is here like wow Dallas and everybody would want to demand his attention because he was so good at showing his attention you know and and genuinely showing it."

In fact his description of Dallas were a little how Lisa has felt about her.

"It wasn't a farce like he cared about you cared about what you were doing um you know how your family was how you were doing and he remembered that stuff too you know wouldn't see the you know not me I would see him all the time but I would watch and he wouldn't see somebody for you know a year and run into them again and he'd remember the last thing they talked about and you know pick up that conversation and check in on those points."

Questions have been raised about Dallas. Did he know more was his information reliable and so hearing Jason's perspective on Dallas is helpful but it's his detailed description of the first two House Parties Lisa attends the night that she goes missing that is most eye-opening.

"I was there that night and I can tell you 100% what he said is what happened."

Dallas and of course Lisa can't tell us their version of events. Christopher Adair has chosen not to speak publicly about that night and so Jason is the first to share his story. I wasn't there but his description is consistent with the known facts of the case. I begin by asking him to step back in time to think about where he's at in his life back on the Canada Day weekend 2002..

"Yeah we're done with high school everybody's working you know their first jobs or I'm working my first jobs and kind of just you know learning the way of the Walk of being out of high school and you know having your own place and being a you know a young adult you know out of your teen years but we were fresh out of the nest so to say."

Jason is working at a grocery store. He's moved out of Dallas's family home. It's the Canada Day weekend and he and his friends are partying.

"I was with a couple other friends originally. We went to a small house party and when I say small you know 10-15 people I don't know what people consider a small house party these days but back then you know that was just a gathering."

Jason and Dallas are in touch that night remember. It's now Dallas's birthday and when Dallas and Lisa and their other friend Ryan leave the bar they are keen to hook up with their pals and keep the party going. It is Christopher Adair AKA Red Jag Guy that offers to drive the friends to meet Jason and the others.

"That was in Harewood, um we were there, there's a hot tub we're all having drinks and whatnot and then Dallas showed up to that house party with Lisa, another friend of ours, and this guy we'd never met, the red Jaguar guy."

It's now the early hours of Sunday June 30th. Jason remembers being a bit surprised to see Dallas and Lisa together.

"We all kind of you know just you know bullshitting a bit and uh I remember I remember seeing Lisa with Dallas which is a little bit odd because I didn't know that Dallas and Lisa knew each other that well, I knew they knew were familiar with each other I've heard rumors that they dated in the past, I don't think that's the case but um but he's like hey you know Jay check out who I found, I'm like oh sweet Lisa how you doing because Lisa and I had actually been hanging out quite frequently right around that time up at her apartment so I had a different friend who's a very close friend of mine as well who had you know an interest in her so I was kind of wingmanning up to the apartment uh hang out and uh because she had a roommate, Lisa had a roommate there so the four of us could kind of intermingle so it was just weird to see another one of my best friends with Lisa and you know there was definitely some affection there and I was like okay this is a little bit odd but whatever you know real young nobody's dating or engaged here or anything."

Jason's friend is interested in Lisa and so Jason has been spending time at her place.

"I knew Lisa for years it just like I said around the time it was it was just odd to see Lisa with Dallas because another close friend of mine was you know making his best to date Lisa. His first name is Rob. So we would go up to Lisa's place hang out you know whatever you know a couple times a week nothing nothing ever came of it from from them like there was no relationship nothing ever happened just because the other fan that I'm talking about was making his best to try and have romantic relations with her and then Dallas shows up to the party with Lisa and uh they were pretty affectionate."

Affectionate can mean different things to different people Jason sees something romantic developing that night between Dallas and Lisa.

"Very very flirty they you know you can tell they've been drinking they definitely find each other attractive who knows what could have happened Beyond you know if if Lisa hadna hadn't have left but it just you know you can see that things were the mix was there and kissy but not like get a room type stuff but it was very they were definitely interested in each other."

He says that he and his other friends Ryan and Wade who were there that night were all friends with Lisa no one else had romantic intentions towards her but then there's the new guy Christopher Adair. Here's what Jason can recall about meeting Chris that night.

"The best way to describe is he looked more professional than than us like he had his fancy car he was dressed up and maybe it was just for the bar he was clean cut he was more sober than I would have been leaving the bar just just he had nice nice clothes on he wasn't ratty you know like he was dressed nice he was a polite guy made eye contact when he spoke he he had a genuine feel about him he he definitely was like straight laced sober-ish like he might have had a couple drinks but he wasn't like Dallas and and my other friend and and Lisa there like you could tell they've been drinking everybody you know you said Dallas and Lisa were we're lush.

The Harewood party is now winding down but the friends are keen to keep the fun going.

"I mean back then the party didn't really ever end it was like where where's the next party you'd wake up in the morning and it's like where are we going tonight who are we meeting up with you're already phoning people you know especially if it was your day off even if you worked you got off at 4 pm it was like you know by six o'clock you're already driving to see where we were going you know I mean at the hot tub party it was a couple of us in the hot tub they Lisa Dallas and uh my other friend in the Jaguar guy they didn't go into the hot tub because they came to the party so they were like you know still dressed and whatever and we decided pretty quickly to go back to the to another friend of mine's house who also had a hot tub so we're like let's go back to his place there's a hot tub there this party's shutting down his mom's out of town we got you know we can sit in the hot tub all night we don't have to worry about the party going um and then we'll uh you know everybody can go home in the morning when we're sobered up and at that point we shouldn't have driven to the other house anyway but we were you know some not as drunk as as we were later so we leave this party we weren't there very long just enough to collaborate our new plan get introduced to this new guy red Jaguar guy who we hadn't met but he's a new guy you know he's looking seems polite so we kind of you know what are you all about you know and this guy came from the bar we all hung out there for very long I mean this is after the bar closed, it was already pretty late and we were we were definitely you know inebriated."

Aat this point Lisa leaves the Harewood party accompanied by five men. Jason Goodman the man who's telling the story, his friend the late Dallas Hulley, his friends Ryan and Wade and the new guy Christopher Adair. Jason recalls getting out of the hot tub and heading to the next party.

"I was in the hot tub with my other friend uh who whose house we went to after the party, his name's Wade so yeah we were just in like I said in the hot tub when they got there we got out got dried off got dressed mingled for half an hour with Dallas and Lisa and Ryan and and the Chris fella and then we were like okay well let's go back up to Wade's place because we've got the hot tub there that party's not going to shut down you know it's no nobody's there to give a shit, so we uh basically weighed myself Lisa Dallas Ryan and Chris got in two vehicles and went up to Wade's place. I mean at that point where we're going the second place I wouldn't say that was a party it was me Wade you know what I mean it was all friends except for Chris like everybody knew each other except for Chris the five of us we all were great you know we're all very familiar with each other."

This next smaller gathering is out in the Cathers Lake area a little Lily Pad filled Lake still in the city the group splits into two vehicles Chris Lisa Dallas and Ryan in Chris's car Wade and Jason in another.

So we got there, the driveways is a three story type house and you got to go down to the basement uh around like this uh walkway around the back where the big porch is down there where the hot tub and stuff is there's a main floor so we're parked in the driveway at the main floor and uh I don't know we were out in the driveway for quite a bit uh cracking beers and kind of BSing out there and then we're like you know let's head down and and uh there's a pool table let's play some pool you know go in the hot tub whatever hang out."

It's at this point where I sincerely wish that the hot tub Jason is describing really was a time machine, that I could turn back time and see Lisa and her young friends make different choices.

You may recall from earlier episodes that Lisa is a vegetarian she wants something to eat.

"Lisa is like well I'm hungry and then Wade's like let's we'll barbecue some food right and she's like well I don't eat meat and then it was like a debate about what we could make there that she had eat and she just was not having that she was like I don't want that I don't want the food here you know I want uh I want Subway, they have a vegetable sub there and then Chris is like ya I'll drive you down there. It was it was all nonchalized easy the Subway's not too far we're like oh you know that sounds like a good idea you know do you guys want anything nah nah you know we'll just eat the barbecue food then she hopped in with Chris. Chris has had her in the car uh we're at that point we figured they're going down the subway to get a vegetable sub and we'd see them in 20 minutes."

It's Dallas's birthday. He and Lisa are hitting it off. They've been flirting affectionate. And now she's just left him high and dry with his buddies while she takes off in a fancy car with a slick good-looking guy I wonder how that sits with the group.

"Well I'll say this I think that I don't know if Chris had romantic intentions for Lisa but I think Dallas saw Chris as a bit of a cock blocker in the situation he was deaf there was definitely like there was one girl right and four young guys. Wade and I not interested Ryan on her five young guys sorry including Chris Ryan Wade myself I know Lisa we're not doing that she's my friend but uh doubt you know Dallas was definitely you know who had some romantic engagement going on it's his birthday they're drinking and I don't I never saw anything between Chris and Lisa where there was like you know touching or or flirting but you could tell there was definitely an animosity that that Chris you know wanted to uh to be in Dallas's shoes, let's put it that way."

From the moment I first saw Lisa's beautiful picture I wondered if her good looks had put her in some danger and here it seems there is some evidence that tension had developed between the two men over Lisa that night.

"Very very very very beautiful very very nice person."

In their youth and in the haze of a booze fueled night they see nothing untoward about what is happening.

"Chris is like, I'll just rip you down there and uh basically the four of us went uh down to the basement to go get the the hot tub lid off and get the barbecue fired up and the beers in the fridge and that kind of thing so yeah we went down there they they left to go off to the Subway."

In hindsight it seems a little reckless but back then...

"None of us really thought anything of it the guy I don't know it's hard because maybe we should have thought something of it but it just it was so innocent it was a normal thing for somebody to be to rip off to Subway. It was normal for us did not care who we were going with like I would have just as likely jumped in and you know I'm a dude so it's probably not as dangerous of a situation but it no you know what I mean the it was just like okay you know she was confident they you know it seemed like this guy was cool everybody knew each other we're good you know we'll see you get your Subway."

Confident how Lisa's father and all friends describe Lisa.

"That's exactly it she's confident she was sure herself yeah especially if it was in the situation and she's she's a smart girl so I'm sure that in her own mind and I mean we all felt that the same thing as that this guy wasn't there was nothing wrong with them so it's fine if she had to read it differently she wouldn't have gone. None of us read it that way."

[Music]

What is Lisa thinking as she gets into Chris's car and heads for Subway? That's a question that will never be answered but according to Jason, Lisa is in good spirits and although she's been drinking she's in control I mean I don't have my serving it right but I probably still would have served her another drink at the bar but you know it's the middle of the night and people can show drinking differently as well but she wasn't susceptible drunk if that's kind of what you mean it was she was you know she was she had her head about her."

Chris and Lisa have left the cathers lake Gathering behind as far as Lisa's friends know she'll be back so on after a quick trip to the Subway. Wade's place has a pool table couches a fireplace and yes it has a hot tub too. The guys put their beer in the fridge get the lid off the hot tub and settle in but after a while they begin to wonder where is Lisa.

"She either called Dallas or Dallas called her but we definitely where it was right around that time when we're like you know this is taking a while kind of thing um I have if I remember correctly it was Dallas that called her because like what's going on kind of thing like what are you doing."

Jason is close to Dallas as this conversation is happening.

"yeah we were all like in the because there was no music so you could hear the phone it wasn't on speakerphone but we were all sitting around the Dallas is in the easy chair and we were all kind of like hanging around the phone the first phone called not as much I heard most of the phone call the other guys were off doing the by the pool table"

He too cares about Lisa and is listening in to what's going on.

"uh called the Lisa's cell phone Lisa's like yeah we're um they're they're at Subway she he wants to go to another house party she doesn't want to go to the other house party we're like okay well do you want us to come and get you because the Subway's not that far from where Wade's house was it's it's 15 minute walk uh maybe a 20 minute walk um she's like nah don't worry about that I'll get it sorted out I'll you know I'll deal with this guy whatever I'll get back up there and then she's like and then we're like do you want to catch cab that kind of thing she's like no no no she's a you know if she's a firm girl when she's she she thought she had that under control at that time for sure she's like I'm gonna you know I'll deal with this whatever."

So how does Lisa sound on this first call with her friends from the Red Jag?

"Annoyed she sounded annoyed she's like this he he wants to go to some other party I don't want to go to the other party I'm telling him I want to go back up to see you guys um which makes me like I don't know what happened after beyond the phone calls but like you could oh I can picture in my head is oh this Chris dude just doesn't want to bring her back up because uh Dallas and her are super flirty and then it just puts him back out of the picture right like that's in my mind that's what I was picturing is this dude it's just if you take Dallas out of the equation then it's then he can be the flirty guy you know what I mean that's so that's what I was picturing like oh he's just being a dick and and wants to not let Dallas be around Lisa"

and then

"then she called back again because we're like okay whatever all right you know we'll see in a bit the first phone call wasn't so much like I said he's like okay well you know you know I'll call you back kind of thing let us know what's going on we need to know what's happening and then hung up and then you know he reflected that you know as he's wants to go to some other party oh and then you know everybody's laughing oh yo looks like uh looks like your date's gonna go with a different guy hahaha that kind of thing right and uh then yeah then they then then she called back and she's like I met uh we're at a party on Bowen Road and the guy won't drive me home he's not gonna drive me home um again it's like well what what are we gonna do she's like somebody come and get me but at that point nobody like there was a Chris had the vehicle and the rest of us were Beyond being able to drive like not legally like I mean Beyond being able to drive"

It's impossible not to think "if only" I recall Lisa's father Dawn relaying this story to me and how he regretted that Lisa called a party with a bunch of drunk guys for help.

"As far as I know that's what she said I'm in the car he he won't let me go um back to your guys's place where this party I don't want to be at this party I want to come back up to see you guys and we're like well you know where are you she's like I don't know I'm on Bowen Road at the house party or at some party and we're like where is the party like should we come and get you from there do we should we get did you need a cab that kind of thing uh just trying to communicate like how we could get her there because we can't drive and she's like no well you know somebody come and get me somebody you know help me just get me out of here that is essentially what the end of the phone call was help me get me out of here Jason described Lisa's tone on the first call as annoyance but by the second call...

"the second call was definitely not just annoyance you could tell there was more concern but and I don't want to play it off like there would like she but it it wasn't like she was like Hey I'm handcuffed they're gonna you know I I'm trapped it was more like he won't let me go uh back to the party won't let me out uh go to the party he like not that he was like restraining her but it's like he refuses to let to drive her anywhere other than this party and I'm you're on Bowen Road now and you stuck with me or figured out type of thing"

and what does Jason know about the Bowen Road party?

"I don't know who was at that party the only person I know that was at that party was Chris and her and I don't even know she actually went into that party I just noticed that she was at that house she I mean what happened beyond that is beyond my knowledge so why didn't Jason Dallas Wade or Ryan help Lisa that night we were all still under the impression that Lisa's you know not strong physical girl but strong enough to be like hey whatever neither walk back and call us and meet us at like a meet halfway thing or bowling Road's not far from Country Club and she had to move the next day so at the same time we're like well because she would have had to be back to her house early from Wade's because we're like she's like if I stay with you guys for the night I got to be back in the morning to do the move and are you guys going to be up to like drive me kind of thing and we're like yeah we'll make that happen right and with that obviously never occurred I tried to put myself in the shoes of these young guys you were all young partying and yes maybe you were a little reckless naive I think we all kind of just figured she would make either make her way home let us know what's going on but then we didn't hear anything you know the night went on the morning came and then that's when it started to come to light that she hadn't gone home you know we got phone calls I remember uh who got who uh who had phoned but they were asking if we had seen her and of course we had seen her but she had never made it home your friend is missing so then of course I'm falling in Dallas. Dallas's phone and Wade like it did like what's going on if you heard anything and I mean this this was before social media too so it was there's a lot of gray area at that point you're still hoping that things are going to turn out okay but as the days go on your worry mounts it wasn't Lisa's style that I at least that I know of to disappear for a couple days so you know a you know a party maybe she met somebody at that party that she liked and was that she knew and they ended up going somewhere else a different girlfriend who knows at that point that that that's kind of where my mind frame was anyway was like well maybe just maybe she you know ended up having a few more drinks went to a different girlfriend's house you know she's sleeping it off we'll see her tonight we'll hear from her tomorrow morning that kind of thing Jason is confirming a timeline Don young has already laid out to me but then tomorrow morning came and the next morning came and still nobody had heard from her the the police contacted me and we did an interview um explained to them what had happened that was pretty quick within within days within a few days and I know that they had interviewed Dallas I know they interviewed Wade it's early on when the police know the circumstances in which Lisa Left Behind her friends they know about the red Jag guy yeah though that was definitely a topic of conversation with right away like anybody we spoke to it's like well red Jaguar guy because we didn't know his name that was that was his name to us it's been his name to me until about uh a month ago when I learned his name so red red Jaguar guy you know was with with her who knows red Jaguar guy where's red Jaguar guy from we've never seen him and we know flipping everybody so you know who is this guy I've interviewed at least a dozen people who have described driving around searching for Lisa in those early days Jason 2 is out looking for his friend her phone's just straight like to voicemail there's no she wasn't answering we drove around kind of looking at some of the more popular haunts so to say but no nothing just Without a Trace type of thing there was just nothing so everybody everybody's scrambling around and Lisa ran in her own circles too so I mean she's got her family on one side looking for friends on this side looking for friends on this side looking for and with and I you know like I said there's no social media so there was no real we did none of us all banded together so there's just different factions of different people looking or trying to get get answers like who's who's the red Jaguar guy what party could she have been at where could she have gone you know who what friend is missing out of the circle right now that she could be with right now as Jason looks back on this horrific time he wrestles with guilt you know I look back and I think there's like a lot there's different regrets and I'm sure that I know Dallas felt a lot of you know over the years before he passed we know the conversation would come up quite frequently of like how things could have played out differently or how we could have changed the outcome you know there's we we didn't phone the police like you know but it at the time when when she's like hey this dude's you know not letting me leave the party it you know do we want we we should have fallen Place clearly we should have but we didn't but it also it didn't translate at the time to be a situation where we thought we should phone the police but but that's because we didn't have a a loss of trust I guess in everything was everybody gambled does that make sense so we didn't think that uh we didn't think that that was a situation that's not an annihil that's not our scene that's not you know this guy's just being a dick she'll we'll see her in an hour when you know well where she's going to go home and she will see her tomorrow and when she's done moving or and we just didn't see her in the years to come he and Dallas talk frequently about what they did and didn't do that night it was generally about how we could have made things different and I think a lot of it was discussing some of the guilt that we all carry for not making different decisions at night it's like you know I to this day I I still feel terrible that we didn't make different choices or somebody didn't go with them to the Subway or they're they're the choices that were made were the ones that were made but could they have been different and would they have would Lisa still be here with us right now you know how much of a role did our choices play in the fate of the outcome of this for the red Jag guy Christopher William Adair Jason never sees him again the last memory he has of him is waving goodbye as he drives off with Lisa to the subway he recalls thinking hey there goes that nice guy taking Lisa to get food none of us ever seeked him out and it probably would have been in Chris's best interest not to run into Dallas after that night and that's probably part of the reason you know the police didn't really ever tell us anything it's just always been 20 years later and still some veiled umbrella that we don't get to see underneath you know what what details they have so everybody still has to play a guessing game nobody shares the information to me that's insane especially this long like just well they play their game their way but that's you know I mean for for Dallas to see Chris out I mean he he would have I know Dallas he would have personally interrogated Chris and tell you all the answers and that's not because Dallas is a mean evil guy that's because Dallas would have wholeheartedly wanted nothing but answers as to where Lisa is Dallas's life goes sideways in later years I think that it had a lot to do with some of the lifestyle changes that he made afterwards he made some some choices that weren't the best and I won't say it's a you know 100 because of that situation but it definitely didn't help I mean I everybody has skeletons in their closet you know and Dallas shows a route to deal with them that clearly wasn't healthy and didn't help him in the end."

There are drugs there's some criminality and ultimately there is a sudden tragic death on the side of the highway at 38 years old.

"I think that her disappearing definitely weighed like the helplessness the feeling of helplessness helplessness afterwards of knowing that he could have gone with them like I said or or even refuse even refused to let him take her be like nah we'll walk her down or argued harder to have her eat a salad out of the fridge or you know just walk down to the the Subway on the first phone call or like at least at that point we knew where she was we you know we could have maybe it would have maybe she still would have been there in 15-20 minutes if we had to thrown our shoes on and ripped out the door."

But as much as Dallas Hulley's life and death are intertwined in Lisa's story, it is Lisa who Jason now wants to keep the focus on.

[Music]

"This is Lisa's forum and I want nothing more than than to you know have closure for for the family for everybody you know any information I've said if it helps hopefully it does."

As for how he remembers Lisa that night.

"She was wearing pretty clothes. She's a pretty girl and she was really really happy, she was like upbeat, super upbeat that night."