File:Island-Crime-s1e14-Speak-Up-or-Shut-Up.mp3

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Island Crime s1e14:Speak Up or Shut Up (58m) Friday Nov 24, 2023 (Laura Palmer)

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[Reproduced under Copyright Act (Canada) s.29.2 - Fair Dealing for the purpose of news reporting]

Transcript

[Auto-generated transcript, contains errors]

Imagine being accused of something truly terrible. Imagine if for 20 years, rumors had swirled around that you had something to do with the young woman's disappearance. What would you do? This is the story of two men, one eager to clear his name. Another who has chosen to stay silent. Two very different responses from two very different guys. Christopher William Adair William Curry. So far in this series, I've explored allegations that one or both of these men may be connected with Lisa Marie Young's disappearance. I've laid out what exactly is known about Christopher Adair's interactions with Lisa the night she vanished, and what I've been able to learn about his past criminal behavior. Chris has never agreed to an interview with me. He has never spoken publicly about that night. William Curry, on the other hand, is seemingly anxious to clear his name, so much so that he drives across the island to meet with me in person.

Like people talk about where's the tapes? Hahaha. There's a snuff movie. Where's the tapes? I just have to stand straight and face whatever comes my way on this.

I'm Laura Palmer and this is Where is Lisa : Island Crime Season One, Episode 14 : Speak up or Shut Up. In past episodes, you've heard Christopher Adair's former friends, colleagues and from two police officers about their experiences with him. I've spoken at length with some of Chris's family members, but this is the first time I've been able to publish one of those conversations.

"There's a lot of, um, I guess, bad history on that side of the family, which is kind of why I wanted to speak to you in the summer of 2022."

I received an email through the Island crime website. It begins I just happened upon your podcast, more specifically the one about Lisa. I was shocked to hear the name Chris Adair. Chris is my relative. We exchanged emails back and forth for some time. They want to talk to me, but they're conflicted, wary of causing trouble for other family members. The relation you're about to hear from has asked. I keep their identity confidential and that their voice be altered. We will simply call them Pat.

I don't have any relationship with Chris now at this point in my life, or much to do with that side of the family, just because of history and the kind of people that they are. I know they're a very like close knit group.

Pat here is speaking about Chris's sisters and mum.

The only one I've like had any major interaction with was Chris. Chris was the only one that ever actually reached out to me to meet me or talk to me.

Yeah, everyone. Facebook first kind of was a thing. I got a friend request from him, and I remember somehow I was talking to my mom about it, and this is kind of when I first found out about all this stuff that Chris was involved in. And my mom basically told me, you know, don't interact with him. Nothing good comes from being involved with Chris. And obviously I'm a teenager, right? So I'm like, well, I don't, you know, do I necessarily want to listen to my parents? Uh, like, let me make my own decision. And so that's kind of when I started talking to him. Yeah, we just kind of talked about our family, like we're just getting to know each other, basically. Like where are we on? Like, where how do our family trees line up? Like, my dad had told me some stories about him as a kid growing up, and I kind of laughed about that kind of stuff. I know my dad always said he was like a really quiet kid. Um, and. That he was always a little strange. Um, there was a story where my dad started laughing about it, but I guess there was at somebody's house. Um, I don't know whose. There was like a basically, like a broken down car.

And Chris was, like, playing around it, and I guess eventually either got, like some matches or a lighter and drop them into the gas tank and it basically, like, blew up and caught his face on fire. Yeah, I was talking to him, talking to Chris about it, and he was like, oh yeah, I remember that. And I was like, that's really weird. Like, glad you're okay. Probably a good life lesson learned there. I know he was in Alberta. We talked about that and talked about like meeting up, um, when I came out there and then I know he who ended up going to to Japan, I'm not sure if he went somewhere else in Asia either before then or after then. I remember seeing like updates from him about going to Turkey. I believe he got married. The sisters anyways, all went over there when he got married. I don't know if he's still married.

These two aren't close, but they form a bit of a bond. And so when Chris suggests getting on board one of his multi-level marketing schemes pedigrees to do so, he got me involved in a few of his MLMs. So that was nice. Yeah, just like a waste of money on my part, I guess he was. He's a good salesman, right? Like he can definitely. Oh, yeah. You're gonna make some money, you know, going to university and stuff, like getting me involved in that and was like, yeah, it'll help you pay for it. Never did. We kind of lost touch at that point.

In adulthood, Pat observes a continued closeness between Chris and his siblings. I get the feeling that it's very cliquey. I know that they've had a lot of trauma. I would say growing up and with family history, they just.

Keep close to one another to kind of try to protect each other. And I definitely feel like, I don't know, kind of you, you know, that you can trust each other and that they'll always have your back kind of thing. I've tried to get close and never been able to, and always just kind of felt like I was treated like an outsider. So I think that that in my opinion, that they're just like, yeah, we we have all gone through so much in our lives like their mother. And obviously this situation probably plays into effect. I'm sure they know something and just don't want to say anything. I believe that everyone is kind of in agreeance that yes, he could have done it, and that Jerri could have definitely helped him get away with it. That's kind of my conclusion.

Pat here is expressing an opinion based on their observations over time of this part of their family. We talk for a while about childhood memories they have of Chris's grandmother, Jerry Adair. Jerry is now deceased. Jerry helped raise Chris. He was driving her car the night Lisa vanished. She threatened to sue Lisa's parents for what she viewed as harassment in the aftermath of Lisa's disappearance. So understanding Jerry could be important in putting together this puzzle.

Pat recalls Geri as a woman determined to get her way. They use the word mean, describing Jerry as the kind of person who will hold a grudge forever. They tell me the consensus in their family is that if anyone was capable of helping to cover up a crime, it would be Jerry. Jerry had lots of money and resources, and they believe it was Jerry who was responsible for getting Chris off the island and telling him never to come back.

I only know of one instance where he went back to the island, and that was for Gerry's funeral. And I know during the funeral, actually, one of my cousin's vehicles got stolen and they eventually ended up finding it. But I just remember thinking, with all of this stuff that's going on, like, it's just weird that the one time Chris is back for a family thing, somebody's vehicle gets stolen. You know what I mean? Like, it just seems weird. And not that I'm saying it was his fault, but it's just like the coincidence of it is like things seem to seem to constantly be following this guy. Bad things seem to happen when he comes around, and today Pat is uncomfortable with what she views as Chris's furtive behavior.

Like what's all the why, all the secrecy while they're running away and hiding? You know, I ask why they've decided to speak to me now. What they hope could come of their participation in this podcast. It turns out Pat is actually more concerned now about Lisa's family than their own. I, I can't I can't even imagine, um, what they're going through, and that's got to be hard. I have a small child, and I can't. I can't even imagine what I would do or go through if something like that happened to my to my daughter. And that's kind of why I wanted to reach out, because I just feel like if you truly had nothing to do with it, then why all the hiding while the disappearing? Why? Why go through all that? I understand that it would probably be tiring to, you know, kind of the light is on you as the last person who's seen her. But if it was me and I knew that I had nothing to do with it, I would be doing everything in my power to make sure that everyone knew that and felt that, and knew that I was being genuine as much as I could, you know? So it just it just seems weird to me. And yeah, I think there are family members who know more than maybe they want to let on. I just hope for the best and putting that positive energy out into the universe. I guess that hopefully something does happen.

Chris, what happened after you took Lisa to subway that night? Where did you go? When did you last see her alive? These are questions I'd like to ask Chris Adair. So, Chris, if you're listening, I'd still very much like to speak with you. I'm reachable at Laura, at Laura Palmer. Okay. When I began work on Lisa Marie Young's Story back in 2019, I had a goal of separating fact from fiction. Lisa vanished from Nanaimo on the Canada Day weekend in 2002. In the more than 20 years since her disappearance, a powerful story has taken hold in the community she called home. There are various versions of the rumor, but at its core, the story goes something like this. Lisa is taken to a house party where she is drugged, assaulted and killed. Some versions include the dark detail that there is a snuff film made that night, a film that many believe still exists. The story also goes that Lisa's remains are buried and then subsequently moved. Now that's the rumor. As far as the known facts of the case, this is what I can confirm happened.

Lisa leaves behind a group of friends at a gathering in the early hours of June 30th. She is in the company of Christopher William Adair, a young man driving his grandmother's red Jag. She calls her friend Dallas Holly, saying that she's in the Jag in a driveway on Bowen Road and they won't let her leave. Now there are names consistently raised. Those who are allegedly there that night who hold some responsibility for what happened to Lisa.

The name Willie Curry is one of them. In my years investigating this story, I've had dozens of people tell me they believe William Curry is in some way involved. They know someone who knows someone who told them a story, or they tell me they know William Curry. They allege he has hurt them or someone they know. They believe his rumored involvement in Lisa's disappearance. But to date, no one has ever told me they witnessed William Curry with Lisa. Not the night she disappeared. Not ever. And so Willie Curry has been trying to put an end to this rumor for two decades. The day I'm meeting Willie Curry face to face for the first time is cold. It's the first day I've seen snow on the mountains. It's an exceptionally beautiful day in the Alberni Valley. The leaves are turning colors and falling steadily from the trees like rain.

We are meeting at the Riverbend Cafe. It's a little roadside stop near where the Sumas River meets the Alberni Inlet. It's been there since 1936 and has recently been renovated with some really nice vintage touches. It's one of my favorite spots for coffee. I arrive early, I order a drink and grab a table in the corner overlooking the parking lot. It's one of those old chrome and formica kitchen tables. We had one in our house when I grew up.

It's ten after the morning rush and the place is quiet. I've only seen one picture of William Curry before, and I'm not sure when that photo was taken, so I don't really know what he looks like. A middle aged guy with a ball cap and plaid jacket, enters, orders a coffee and stands waiting by the front. I try to catch his eye. Eventually, I walk over and ask him if his name is Willie. It's not.

A few minutes after that, a balding, portly gentleman with glasses and a black turtleneck enters. Once again, I stroll to the counter and inquire if he might be William. He's not. I suspect it's beginning to look like I'm on a blind date. I settled back at the table, checking my recorder, reviewing the list of questions I want to go over with Willie Curry. We've only spoken once before. I remember being surprised at his willingness to speak with me when I made the call that day. I'd expected him to hang up.

Afterwards, the RCMP asked if I would hand over the raw tape from that conversation. Now, I didn't do that. It's my position that if I want sources to talk to me, they need to know they can trust me to know that I don't work for the police, that I'm not beholden to anyone except the victim, in this case, 21 year old Lisa Marie young. I came away from that brief phone call with William Curry feeling like he and I weren't done talking. And so here I sit, waiting for William Curry, a man whose alias was once Killer Curry.

He arrives on time in a white pickup truck. He's accompanied by his girlfriend, a woman with lengthy blond hair wearing a stylish long coat. She gets out of the vehicle to walk a brindle colored dog that looks like a boxer. Willie enters the cafe, catches my eye and heads towards me.

He's in his mid-fifties with short dark hair. He has a roundish face and he's wearing glasses. He's dressed in a long sleeved light blue shirt, one of those high tech activewear type shirts with a fabric that wicks moisture away. Willy used to be a boxer and he still cuts an imposing form, but he's got a slight limp and he's carrying a little extra weight. He reaches out to shake my hand and we begin to talk. That is good.

Okay. Testing one. Two, three. Can you tell me what you had for breakfast?

Uh, a cup of coffee. Coffee?

Yeah. And how was the drive?

The drive was great.

Were you coming over the hump?

Yep. I'm over the hump. No. Uh, just a little bit. And there was some, uh, a police officer at the top of the hill pulling over big trucks. Yeah.

Okay, well, I think we're good to go. Before we started recording, you introduced yourself. Can you do that again? Uh, my name is William Curry.

And, uh, do you want to just tell me a little bit about yourself?

Um, well, I'm 55 years old. I have, uh, seven children altogether. Four of them. My help raise with my ex-wife. Uh, three of them, um, uh, have been raised by the other mothers, parents and, um. Let's see here. Recently, my father became ill, so I took him in. And he lives. He lives with me now. So I'm looking after him. And, uh, I'm a hard worker. Yeah. I don't know what else really to say. That's great. Hey, I know this is going back 20 odd years now, so. But as much as you can and it as much detail as you can recall, I can ask you to try and remember. Okay.

How do you first learn that your name is being tossed around in connection with, um, in this case, I can't really recall that. All I know is I started hearing these, uh, rumors that I had something to do with it, and I'm not quite sure what the rumors were, but after a while, I started understanding. And one of them was something about that. Um, I was selling some kind of mud, some cream, some mud that you put on for facial stuff. And, uh, some woman started going on about, um, uh, how that. Mom, I don't even like to speak like this. But how? Uh, Lisa's body is at the bottom of this mud pile that we got. And that's where we're getting this clay from and stuff like that to, you know, and it's like. What? Um, I think I first heard of it was on the internet, I guess, um, somebody said that she was last seen or something at my house or something like that on Twiddly Wiggly, where I lived with my family. Right. So I think that was the first time I've heard. I heard something about it. Yeah. When you're hearing those kind of rumors at that point, what what is the gist of the allegation of your involvement? What it was it was, um, uh,

I knew that the police put out a search for her and then cancelled it. Right. And I was like, well, why would they do that? I wasn't quite sure. Okay. So I thought, well, I'm going to help. I'm going to put some posters on my van. So I put some posters on my van and um, after a little time went by and I didn't think that was enough. So, uh, Bob, who is also part of this, whatever she says, part of it, whatever else he said that he knew, um, Lisa's father. So I said, well, could you put me in contact with him? Because I want to let him know that if the police aren't helping him, that I would be there to help them. So I phoned him up and I said, hi, my name's William Currie, and, uh, uh, I would like to offer myself to you if you need anything, if you need a door kicked down or whatever else, I'll help you out. I'll. I'll be there. And, um, a week went by and I thought I was going over to the mainland, and I thought, well, I'm going to want to hang up some posters. So I thought, well, I'm not going to phone the police to ask permission. So I phoned up Don and I asked him to meet me at, uh, Tim Hortons. And if I asked for permission to hang some posters of his daughter.

So I didn't realize that it was Bob that first. Be in touch. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Just a note here. Willie is referring to Bob Gallagher, a friend of Lisa's father, Don young. I introduced you to Bob in episode nine. Bob hadn't mentioned to me that it was him who put Willie in touch with Don young. So I follow up with him to clarify this point, and he writes me back immediately. Most definitely not. He writes, I was not even aware that he had met with him until after it had happened. Don and I both worked at Perlmutter at that time, and I didn't find out about Currie's alleged involvement until sometime after she disappeared. Now, this may or may not be significant, but it appears Willie and Bob remember this point differently. How soon after Lisa's disappearances? That is it, I believe. I would think about it. Um,

I think maybe eight months. Okay, so some time has has gone by. Not in the immediate. Yeah. Maybe six months or so. Maybe six months. Yeah.

Okay. And so are the police talking to you at that point? No, no, no. They came. Uh. I think the first time they brought it up, I was working on a roof and they came by and got me off the roof, and I had a chat with him in the back of the car, and then they took me down to the police station, I believe, I think, if I recall properly, and they questioned me there and then. They came to me and said, well, do you want to do a polygraph? I said, why didn't you say that two years ago to me?

So when they first come and talk to you, what are they telling you about? Why you're on their radar at all?

Um, I'm not 100% sure. Why? Yeah, I can't recall.

So they're asking you just like, what do you know about this? Or just.

Yeah. Yeah, basically. And, uh, where I was that night and stuff, and I recollect that I was at home with my wife, and I believe they questioned her and she said the same thing. So the night that Lisa went missing. So. Yeah. So.

Yeah. And at that point, had they already heard this rumor about Lisa being taken to your home, are they asking? I don't know. I don't know.

I think you told me the last time you talked right around that time. You're also. You're running an after hours club.

Yeah, I was running an after hours club. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So. Right downtown. Uh. Uh, where Wongs store used to be. Right on. Uh, the kind of a triangle, kind of a building in the in the basin. I had one. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

And. But you never ran across Lisa.

Never know, because she's she's kind of at that time, my understanding. And she's working a little bit clubs and she's certainly going out a lot. Right, right. She may have been there, but I never met her. Ever. No. Right.

And so working as a roofer, you got the afterhours club going and you've got your married. And do you have kids? Yeah, yeah, I got yeah. I had um, uh, four children at that time. And so where, where are you living at that point? Um, well, I was living on Twiggly Wiggly, 2260 Twiggly Wiggly Road. And. Is that a house that you owned it? Yeah, we owned it. Yeah, me and my wife owned it. Yeah. I think, you know, when the kind of rumor starts going around of your a Lisa being taken to a home that you're at. It's a home on Bowen Road. I'm Bowen Road. Yeah. I don't know anything about that. But what I did hear through friends of my wife's, and they went to school together and they worked together as registered nurses who own a place on Kennedy Street. Yeah. Was that. Lisa, stop. They stopped by there. Yeah. She was. She was at the house. She's seen the roommate went upstairs and seen the roommate before she left. And that's how I know that. But so was it. Is it your understanding it was Lisa or Chris that went to see the roommate? I don't know, I'm pretty sure it was. I'm pretty sure it was Lisa. I'm pretty sure. Yeah, yeah. And do you know why? No idea why? No. I have spoken with one of the owners of this Kennedy Street property, and I've confirmed that what Willie is saying is true. This is kind of a big deal. Up until now, this detail, this location of a place Lisa is seen that night has never been public knowledge. I'm still hoping to have a longer conversation with the owner, but for now at least, I can confirm this detail concerning another location. Lisa was at the night she vanished. I want to go back to the point where police asked you to take a polygraph. Yes.

Can you? You've told me this a little in a short conversation on the phone. But can you just walk me through that? Because I've never met anybody who's taken one before. What goes on?

Well, um, what it was I got, um, I don't know how they brought it up to me, but when they did, I remember being relieved, saying, why don't you do this a year or two years ago? Right. That's perfect. That's good. And I didn't know that they don't release information. I didn't know that. Right. I thought they could clear my name and like, in the paper or whatever else. Right. So I, uh, um, I was scheduled to take the polygraph on, I believe, on a Monday or Tuesday, and I got to all of a sudden they pulled me over whatever along in the name of somewhere and arrested me for a breach of my conditions about not seeing my kids. And I think what it was, I seen one of my kids at the swimming pool. I was taking another little kid swimming with me, and I left. I said, hey, how are you doing? Look at your dad looking good. And the kids waved at me or whatever else, and I left and the breeched me on that, and they arrested me. So when they arrested me, I said, well, do guys, I'm supposed to be at the office on Monday or Tuesday to do this polygraph? How is that going to get done? Well, we'll get it arranged. We'll get we'll get them to come up there and, you know, go. No, you're not going to arrest me and then tell me, you know, I didn't get nothing. So what I think it was, I think the police. Arrested me for. They had me to do the polygraph. I did the polygraph with my lawyer saying, do not do the polygraph, do not do it. And because I wanted to say like I wanted, I said to him, I said, well, are they 100%? And he said, yeah, they are. So I said, well then why wouldn't I do it? Like, why wouldn't I do a polygraph? So, um, sorry, when you say, are they

100% like the polygraph, oh I see gotcha. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, well, he, he said like 97% or something like that. I'm not quite sure. And, um, uh, that was a lawyer from Victoria, Brad Hartford. Right. Um, and he's a pretty good lawyer up there and stuff like this. And most people would take his advice, but the fact was that I wanted to get it cleared up because I went to the family and I offered myself and, oh, now all of this stuff is getting said and I'm feeling inside just horrible. So I think, well, this is a way to get my get it cleared up. Yeah. Right. So when I, um, they called me up to records while I was in jail, they called me up to records and I agreed to do it right. Uh, they put the polygraph, all the little stickers on and stuff, and, um, I was nervous, and I was like, what if they're trying to frame me for anything? And I took the things off a couple different times, right? And they calm me down and got me to relax. And they asked me the questions, and they asked if I had anything to do with Lisa's murder, and I said no and stuff. And then I said, well, after we're done, I said, well, what's the results? He goes, well, you're telling one the truth 100%. I went, yeah. And I hugged Egan, the officer that, uh, was sitting up the polygraph. I hugged him up. Get on that phone and phone, Mr. Young. Let them know right now. Let them know. Right. They said they were going to do that. And I was like, I was happier than happy.

William Curry's former lawyer has not returned my calls. The RCMP will not comment on the outcome of the polygraph, and it's important to note that lie detector tests are not admissible in Canadian criminal courts. They're not viewed as reliable enough to decide someone's guilt or their innocence. I don't think I can adequately describe just how strange this whole scene is. Here I am, sitting in my favorite coffee spot, surrounded by their lovely vintage posters and pop music from the 1960s, playing quietly while they serve up fancy coffees. All the while, Willie Currie sits across from me, doing his level best to explain how it came to be that he has long been rumored to have been involved in Lisa Marie Young's disappearance. I stopped from time to time to check my notes and ask him to clarify aspects of his story. I know you. You are going out and helping with the search. Mhm. Um that's before and the polygraph or any of that. Yes.

Right. Okay. And so because you, I think the last time I talked to you said not only are you searching you also learn about Chris.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And that was an old timer. I think he might have passed on by now, but Ken Switzer, uh, he told me about this Chris guy that was, uh, used to go to the Balmoral where there's dancers were there and stuff. And that how when he showed up there, there's a doorway between the hall and where, um, I guess the wing where they stayed, the dancers and the hallway. Anytime he was there, that the door was shut and locked. Yeah. And so who's Ken Switzer?

Ken Switzer, just, uh, old time prospector guy. So you're doing searches and you're looking for Lisa, and then you hear through this guy that he knows. Chris. Chris. Yeah. Right.

Yep. And so how is it then? Because I think you mentioned you end up going to Qualcomm.

Yes I did. Yeah. Well so tell me about that. Um, well let's see here. I um, I found out that Chris had this grandmother, uh, Jerry Odeh, and I know she's, uh, was good in the community. I know she was good for the community and stuff. And so I just wanted to see what kind of vibes I would get off of her when I went up there. And I took a a young lady by the name of Tanya with me up there and, um, where she could stand beside me. And she, like, acting like my daughter. And I'm looking to buy a house for us, right, right. And we ended up kind of sitting down with her and, um, while I was talking with, uh, Jerry older, so I know I knew there was something bothering, like, something was wrong, like. Right. Yeah. And that's as far as I went with that. I didn't go any further with that.

Yeah. So but your, your goal in going there was, was what. Well was to get closer to Jerry Odeh to get close to her and um, can't remember why we didn't go look at a place. Yeah, but it was to get close to her to see if I could get closer to this Chris fella. Did she shed any light at all? No, I didn't bring the bring it up. No, I didn't talk about it or nothing like that. So I just, uh, played the role like I was a guy buying a house or stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah, but I didn't go any further with that. I don't I'm not quite sure why I didn't go any further with that. Yeah, because I'm pretty sure I could have got her to show me a house. And actually, what I was going to truly try to do with her was romance her. Oh, okay.

Right. Yeah. Like romance or buyers and flowers and stuff. And bring a bottle of wine and stuff. That's what I was thinking of doing. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And can you tell me, because it sounds like you're quite invested at that point and trying to learn what you can.

Yeah. What what other steps are you taking? Who are you talking to? Um, well, one of them at the beginning. Right. I had my daughter, uh, one of my daughters that went to NSS, and I got her to introduce me to the principal there, and I went to the principal, and I say, would it be possible that we could use your grounds and do a search thing and have the base at the school? And he said, no, I don't think that would work. Uh, there's programs for that. And the police are looking after that. And so that got shut down. Right. And my idea was, was to get a bunch of people together and get them to just clear their mind and wherever people's mind would take them. Like you say. Um. What do you call that place? Um, see Piper's Lagoon or something like that. See if, you know, 50 people thought of Piper's Lagoon, you know. Well, let's start. Let's look there and stuff. That's what my goal was to do something like that. Yeah.

Right. Yeah. And. And you. I think the last time we talked, you said you were also going out in your vehicle and doing searches. Yeah. Well, I only I only did that maybe three times, maybe four times. And I had a fella with me all the time. His name was, uh, Jimmy Vu. And, uh, we just go for a drive and we find clothes. And only a couple of times I dropped stuff off at the police station. Like, it wasn't, like, ten times or nothing like that.

Yeah. Do you remember where specifically you're going?

Um, just down dirt roads and stuff. Yeah. I can't really, uh, think about where we went. Um, up on animal lakes. Up behind and up by Cassidy. Maybe up by Cassidy. Yeah, but that's. That's all I can think of right now. Yeah. And is there anything in particular that's directing those searches has. Has anyone you talked to said no go here. No no no no okay. Just just the thought of okay, well where do we go? Okay. Well let's try going down this road and whatever else and we just drive, right? Yeah.

Now, I don't know, Jimmy.

Who is. Who is he? He was a Vietnamese guy in town, and, um. He was a drug dealer in town. Right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And, um, but he was a he was a good guy. He was a good man. Right. And when he seen that, I would have had posters on my van and stuff like this. He wanted to help. Right. So I didn't turn him down, like I said. Sure. Okay. Well, you want to come for a drive with me and we'll gather these clothes up for that way. There's a witness there, too, right? You know, they could say, well, we found these clothes here or whatever else. Yeah.

And had you ever, up until this time, ever gotten involved in anything like this in terms of, like, helping. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was, um, where this reputation came from. Uh, of me being rough tough guy is. I don't really believe in fees. Right. And when my neighbors would get their house broken into, they would get all their stuff back. I would get all their stuff back, you see? Yeah. Okay. And you can call that vigilante or whatever you like, but, uh, I just always felt like it was the right thing to do, like, you know. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So, yeah, I've always kind of put my time in, like, even nowadays. Like there was a. A thing they had set up in the animal, where they had the tent set up and all the drug addicts were going there and using their drugs and stuff like this. Well, I, um, in my spare time, I'll go there once a week and cook them a meal. So I would go there once a week and cook them a meal and stuff like this. And people on the street, like even nowadays, like when they, when it's cold out and they got like nowhere to go, they come knocking on my door, not on my upstairs where I live, but the downstairs door. And they're usually always somewhere for them to crash out on the floor and get up and leave in the morning.

I want to go back to that, that rumour. And I do want to ask you more about your kind of work, sort of investigating and searching in the aftermath that that rumour. Um, it's it's weird because it's always this same kind of core rumour and versions of it with a number of different people's names attached to it. Okay. Um, include a woman named.

Yeah. Now, do you know her? Yes, I know if I know her better today than I did back then. Like I knew her through her son.

Is she living at the Nanaimo Lakes Road place or no.

When? Now? No. Sorry. Oh, I have no idea. Okay. Yeah, I have no idea. Right. Because that's the other. There's a couple of locations that are always talked about in this rumour. Right? Right. Lisa. And we know that Lisa does call from an address on Bowen Road, but we don't or I don't know what that location is. Oh. You're kidding. The the rumor is always that it's a party at your place, but. So you don't have a place.

I don't I don't ever I have I had kids and I have my, my ex-wife was a registered nurse, and there was never a no parties at my house, ever.

Right. But you're. And you're not living on Bone Road at that point.

No, I love that Twiggly Wiggly Road. Right.

And I guess the the kind of connection after that to the next property is allegedly this Nanaimo Lakes Road property. Yeah. I don't know which exact property you're talking about, but I heard that rave for sells place got searched or something like that, but that's all I know of. So who's. Who's that? Um. Ray and Brian Purcell. Their father left them this chunk of land along the Lakes Road. Yeah, that's all I know, I don't. Ray fixes bikes, and, um, Brian's like a mechanic kind of guy, and, uh, does a bunch of, uh, engineer work and stuff like that. Yeah. Which is just. It's out of the question. Yeah. No, they they wouldn't have nothing to do with anything like that.

I asked the RCMP whether they can confirm that this property was the focus of a police search for Lisa. They tell me they can't confirm any locations they have or haven't searched in order to protect the integrity of the investigation. This location was recently the focus of a hazardous property assessment after multiple fires broke out in the structures, vehicles and debris in the area. As for Willie Curry's assertion that the brothers would have nothing to do with Lisa's disappearance, it's worth noting, perhaps, that both the brothers do have assault charges on their publicly available criminal records, and in 2004, Brian pled guilty to the shooting death of a local man. Neither of them have been charged with any crime related to Lisa's disappearance. No one has. I'm conscious that this level of detail could be tedious for casual true crime podcast listeners, but I'm also aware that even a small piece of information could push the investigation forward. So please bear with me.

You had a reputation at that point as being kind of a tough guy, whatever. And she, for me to drive around with posters on my van was was different. It was different, right? But it was a it was a lack of the police like the information of them counseling the the, uh, surgeons that got me. Well, wait a minute. Oh, well, like

I care. And if these family doesn't know that people out there don't care, then they're like, where's humanity going? I was thinking of myself, and I know the police had the reasons for whatever they did, whatever else I don't I don't know, right. But at that time, I didn't think that. I thought they, they don't give a shit. That's what I thought. Yeah. So I put the post on my thing that would, that was different. So, um, like I say, one of my friends said, what are you doing driving without a well, they're going to blame. They're going to pin that on you. I said, what the what are you talking about? And at that time I was training to fight or a little bit after that, I was training to fight on the 4th of March and March 6th and um, uh, I guess some of them could have got a little bit jealous or whatever else. And yeah, that's what I'm assuming. You know, I don't really know when to go and search for Lisa and stuff, like, you know, how it makes me feel that I can't be there.

I can be there and I want to be there. Like there's another search for her. You can let me know. I'll go there. Right. Yeah. I want to go there. And I want to say I want to face the people. I'm okay with that 100%.

You never. Or do you ever end up talking to him? No. Ever. No. So he never calls? No. Here's that. You're being connected with any of this.

No. No, no.

And did you ever, at any point in all of this meet up with him? Does he never. No, no, I couldn't even tell you what he looked like. I have no idea even what he looks like in October 2023. Wonders Generation Why podcast devoted an episode to Lisa Marie Young's disappearance. They spoke with the hosts of True North True Crime, and they discussed the rumor of the snuff film tape. Here's how Willie Currie reacted to that news.

Like people talk about. Where's the tapes? Ha ha ha ha. There's a snuff movie. Where's the tapes? Like. Come on. Like I. I just have to stand straight and face whatever comes my way on this, right? And look somebody's eye to eye and talk to them just like this. Yeah, because I'm fine. Because whoever said that. Who told you that? Someone told you what? You put in a well with a bunch of clay in it. Well, who told you that?

Right. And how did they find out?

I meant to ask you when you were telling me this story. When we first started talking, you were selling something. Some sort of beauty product with clay. Is that what the story is, or is that.

No, no, no. We were. Oh, okay. Yeah. Ken Switzer yeah. The minor guy, he was out prospecting and they ran into this, um, glacier runoff, right where there's a bunch of this clay stuff, and they got the clay, and they did a bunch of analyzing on it, and they found out it was good for your skin and stuff like this. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. So that was that. That part was true. Yeah I see okay. Yeah. But then it gets connected to some. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. And I don't know who it was a girl who sat there and said that. Oh yeah. Something about Lisa being buried in this spot where this clay shit like that is just fucking bullshit. Is there anything I haven't asked you that you want to make sure get said? Or maybe back to the polygraph thing. I want people to know that I was advised not to take it from a pristine lawyer, and I took it anyways. And to me, that's stepping up to the plate saying, here, no, here. As long as the family gets this information, as soon as that was my deal with them, I said, as soon as we're done, you let the young family know. And they said they would. So I was like, Then I'm going to do this. And I was like, I said, I was nervous, I was nervous, and like, I was nervous. Yeah, because I was like, what if they're trying to frame me coming up here today? I wasn't nervous because you're not. I'm not getting framed. I'm not. You're like, I'm not on a lie detector test where they consider you failed. Oh, yeah, you're a suspect now. So the polygraph is something you wanted to return to. Is there anything else? When I see people gathering for Lisa.

I get it hurts me because I would like to be there. And because of these rumors, I don't want to get rocks thrown at me and stuff like this and stuff for me to be there. But in the future, if there is a search, whatever, I'd like to be there because I was there since day one, like I was there.

Like I had phoned her father up and asked her father for permission.

Who does that?

Like who phones up to the father of a missing child and says, can I have permission from you going to the mainland? Could I have your permission to hang up 500 posters of your daughter over there? And I did. He said, yeah, he broke down, kind of was weeping a bit, and I said, no, it's going to be oh, it's okay. Okay. You know, and, um, uh, I can I'll go get the posters made now and I'll go over there and hang them up. I wanted the family to know that. The family to know that.

Somebody cares out there about their daughter being missing. I was just I was just sad for the family.

Police have never publicly named William Curry as a suspect in Lisa Marie Young's disappearance. But as you've heard him say, he has been the subject of rumors for 20 years, and the police did question him and administer a polygraph test. I still don't know what evidence the police would have had in order to ask Willie Currie to take this step. The police are talking to you. Did they ever tell you what? On what basis? They want to, uh, give you a polygraph? Like, did they ever.

I think it was because of the rumors. Just the rumor.

Yeah. They don't they don't say. Well, you know, we have this person who told you. Told us no or anything? No. Nothing specific.

No, no. Okay. Just the fact these rumors are flying all over the place, and there's like.

I don't know where people get their crazy thoughts of what they say or anything like that, but, um. It gets a little ridiculous after a while, if you ask me. And the thing is, if I went to somebody and said to them, okay, what? What was that? You said, they wouldn't fucking say a word.

They wouldn't even if they wouldn't say a word, even if the police were standing beside them,

I'll look them right in the eye and I'd say no. What did you hear? And what's the truth? And they wouldn't answer because they don't know the fucking truth. Yeah. Pardon my primary language. If somebody had to point the finger at me and say what? This tape, for instance, if someone sat there and said, oh, yeah, there's tape. Tape, why wouldn't they get it and give it to the police? If they're so big on fingering somebody for it, why not say, hey, here, here's your other, here's the evidence, go arrest them. Someone says that she's in a well, why doesn't that person take the police out to that? Well, like, if I walked into a room where if someone was sitting there talking about this and they were fingering me, I walked in that room. They wouldn't sit there and say, you're a fucking murderer. No, they'd shut up. They wouldn't say a word because it's just not the truth. You know, I'm not because I'm big and scary or I'm not. Am I big and scary? Um. And I've always been like this. This is who I am. I got a tattoo there and one on my shoulder and a boxing gloves here. That's what I got for tattoos on my old tattooed up or nothing like that. Yeah, yeah.

If I go back at some point at home and I.

Listen, Laura, if you got more questions. Yeah.

I'll drive up here again like I need to do this. I'm doing it because it's a stand up thing to do is I'm not. I got nothing to hide from. Like I said, when my drive up here, I was not nervous at all. I said, I want to get up here. I was speeding to get up here. I was here right on time. Right? Yeah.

I wanted to meet with William Curry face to face when he asked me if he is a big scary guy. I wasn't entirely truthful in my answer. He is, in fact, a bit intimidating to sit down with, but Willie Curry wanted the interview to be in person, and I did too. I thought it would be easier to judge his sincerity. We already talked about how lie detector test just aren't considered reliable enough to be introduced as evidence in court, and a reporter's gut is likely even less reliable. Yes, I have my own instincts, but instincts can be wrong. My husband is a judge. I asked him what kind of considerations the court uses when assessing credibility. He tells me the courts have recognized a number of factors. Consistency is one of them. Now, I've only spoken with Willie Currie twice now, but his story is largely the same. Police may be able to see inconsistency in his statements, as they would have had prior statements to judge against. Another factor to consider is occasions when a person is untruthful. For example, as you heard earlier in this episode, Bob Gallagher and Willie Currie do not agree on how Willie comes into contact with Lisa's father, Don young. But it's been 20 years, and that could simply be a mistaken recollection on either of their parts. When weighed with common sense, does the story seem impossible or unlikely? The story will be told me of him driving around searching for Lisa. Doesn't really make sense to me when I first hear it. According to Willie, back then, he's a married man with four kids. He's working as a roofer, training as a boxer, and running an after hours nightclub. Why? Why would he devote time to driving on random searches of backroads, looking for a girl he doesn't know? The same goes for his odd interaction with Jerry Adair. But then I think about the moment when Willie told me that his tough guy image may come from the fact that when someone steals from him or his neighbors, he gets it back. He describes himself as a bit of a vigilante type character. And sitting across from him in that moment, I believed him to be telling the truth. I could absolutely see him tracking down someone who stole from a friend. I also recall a news story from a few years back, in which Curry helps return a lost ring to its owner. There is also consideration given to whether there is a motive to lie or mislead. And of course, in this case, the motive is clear. Willie Currie wants to put an end to rumours of his involvement in Lisa's case.

Now the court also considers a person's demeanour. Are they evasive? Belligerent? In this case, I would describe Willie Currie's demeanor as cooperative. His tone is neutral for most of my time with him. He tells me he's not nervous, but he does seem a little anxious at the outset, and he gets visibly angry and frustrated on a couple of occasions, his face darkening, frothing a little. But I don't have a baseline to compare his demeanor with. And there are other explanations which could explain this. Talking to a reporter in this circumstance would agitate most people. I'll be curious to hear what conclusions you come to after listening to this interview. You can get in touch through the Island Crime Facebook page. I'm Laura Palmer and this is an update to where as Lisa Island Crime Season One.